SETUP as dynoed:

STOCK JDM ITR MOTOR w/ HEAD MILLED .030 (ABOUT 11.8:1)
TODA B CAMS, VALVE SPRINGS & CAM GEARS
WEAPON R RACE HEADER (open header)
INTAKE = LONG 3" STRAIGHT PIPE w/ AIR HORN
ACT 8.8 FLYWHEEL & CLUTCH
P28 MUGEN CHIPPED
VAFC
AEM FPR
*EVERYTHING ELSE IS STOCK

this was all put together on a basically brand new ITR motor that STOCK pushed 175 HP's(open header). After I put on all the mods and returned for the dynotune all we could get out of it was 175 and only 115tq ...and this was after 2 full hours and with a very respectable tuner. What could be wrong?

 

what kind of dyno?

 

2 roller dynomax

 

well its kinda hard to say with out a graph to look at but from what I remember toda's did not make as much high end power. So you might have gained more just not max, but again w/out a graph I have no clue.

 

no scanner to post graph...but as far as the Toda B's it made 189 hp in a guys stock USDM ITR (open header) on the same dyno. In refernce to that dyno my motor is ATLEAST under by 20 HP's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kitkatR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well its kinda hard to say with out a graph to look at but from what I remember toda's did not make as much high end power. So you might have gained more just not max, but again w/out a graph I have no clue.</TD></TR></TABLE>


this is true....last build i did with b's.....only 4 more peak hp but MID range was 15-20.....

 

its the area of the graph not the peak.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by db8sirg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its the area of the graph not the peak.</TD></TR></TABLE>


under the line.....

 

does seem low...most likely the tuning

 

There has to be something wrong with the tuning. I have a setup very close to yours. Stock bottom end (b18cR) mild p&p, 310cc injectors, spoon 2 layer, TODA B, and TODA gears. We tuned it with Hondata and made 206 hp and 140 tq. I also did it with a stock fuel pressure reg. Don't let anyone tell you the B's can't make good peak power. And the midrange was awesome also.

I think you need something other than the vafc, p28 and mugan chip. And get some larger injectors. Good luck.

 

Tuning or perhaps run a compression/leak down test.

 

Something is definitely wrong. My stock ITR w/ a straight pipe made 173 whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kimbap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Something is definitely wrong. My stock ITR w/ a straight pipe made 173 whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my stock itr with toda header and aem coldair make 190 whp.....

so....i guess dynos can read differently!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by engineuity &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this was all put together on a basically brand new ITR motor that STOCK pushed 175 HP's(open header). After I put on all the mods and returned for the dynotune all we could get out of it was 175 and only 115tq ...and this was after 2 full hours and with a very respectable tuner. What could be wrong?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1.Open header on the original dyno...makes a big difference if you didn't do the same thing w/the built motor.

2.I'm suspecting your "Mugen chipped" P28. It's hard to beat Hondata, but I think you should be able to get some helpful tuning done w/your VAFC that will help. Do you know anybody experienced in this? I know some guys in Carolina and Virginia, but they're the only ones I'd swear by.

3.Remember that even the same dyno can give you completely different readings on a different day. Barometric pressure and air temperature make a big difference. To know for sure what you're doing, you have to make a change and dyno right after the change.

4.Don't fret so much about absolute figures. Are your lap times lower? Is your 1/4 elapsed lower?

Don't freak. I don't think you know for sure at this point what kind of difference you've made.

My own car doesn't peak HP as high as it could. However, the tuner deliberately lengthened the motor's life expectancy by doing that, and it has a wonderful torque band that makes the car a pleasure to drive on both the street and the track.

You can always get more HP but, as the others have said, it makes for a more pleasurable driving experience and probably more performance overall if you worry about the area under the curve.

 

^ i agree.

but to be honest it is pretty low for Bs.
i was able to get 180 and 135 tq with As.

 

with Bs and Cs you have raise compression in order to see high power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Young_R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with Bs and Cs you have raise compression in order to see high power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he did raise compression

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by engineuity &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">STOCK JDM ITR MOTOR w/ HEAD MILLED .030 (ABOUT 11.8:1)</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Using JDM ITR pistons and milled .030 will not yeild 11.8:1...also have you tried a compression test? The block just might not be a healthy one. I've dyno'd a stock JDM ITR motor at 152/119, sometimes motors just dont run how they should.

I would definately first try a better tuning tool, Uberdata or Hondata, and B's do like a little bit of advance on the intake cam, so cam gears would help the numbers slightly.

 

copression & leakdown test.... 115tq is very very low for toda sbec b's. those are torque cams so your not going to see high horse poower numbers out of them. my shop car (fully built 84mm sleeved type r motor) is running spec b's and its making 210 at 160 on a dynojet, its capible of more but its tuned to last long. it only see's the track.

 

well thanks for all the input..as afar as the block goes i had just finished breaking it in after it recieved new pistons, rings, bearings, & pumps.....the head to was redone with a new valve job and on the dyno the checked compression was 220 straight across.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmb18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you need something other than the vafc, p28 and mugan chip. And get some larger injectors. Good luck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont know but i've seen alot of motors that made alot of power with this basic fuel management........But i was wondering do you guys think i need larger injectors with 11.8:1 compression and this setup and What is the general rule for injector size to compression, displacement or hp?

 

forgot to mention their stock injectors 240cc i THINK

 

i'd be willing to bet its the vafc installation or hardware, ditch it and tune ecu chip directly with uberdata.

make sure timing is set to stock 16degrees before changing any of the timing maps through the ecu, make sure the cam gears are set properly, and buy a set of 370cc RC with the money you get from selling the vafc

 

check your ecu you mite have a bad computer i see that **** happening a lot some time that the last thing people check but comes out to be the bigest problem
if it is try a p30 chiped no nock sensor to get in the way and it is one of the best ecu's to have on a street racer

 

p28 doesnt have knock sensor either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by euclid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd be willing to bet its the vafc installation or hardware, ditch it and tune ecu chip directly with uberdata.

make sure timing is set to stock 16degrees before changing any of the timing maps through the ecu, make sure the cam gears are set properly, and buy a set of 370cc RC with the money you get from selling the vafc</TD></TR></TABLE>

WHat are the differences of uberdata and hondata and do you think 370 are to big?