The bad news.. I made the comment.. lol the good news, no damage was done.

First, here's a map of SIR: http://www.sebringraceway.com/sirmap.html

OK, So VoidDweller from this board is in the car with me. I'm learning the new suspension and tires throughout the day, and I'm accelerating through turn 13 (Tower Turn) and the car starts to oversteer a bit (yes, under throttle, there's a bump there though) so I straighten it out, and to calm him I make a smart assed comment of "Turned in a little too much there." then he makes some comment to not go off on the inside of the corner of something (hard to make it out on the tape) so we enter turn 14 and then in the kink between 14 and 15, the car rotates again (approx 100mph, very slight left hand turn), so two wheels go off, I decide not to correct it and just to ride it out (there's concrete like 200-250 feet later). So the car bounces around some on the grass, then we hit the concrete and stop. w00t. Too bad the camera mount was a little loose and the cam fell sideways fuggen up the possible video

Oh yeah, then I got to see Carbotech's guy (not larry, andie maybe?) change the brake pads on Allan's black ITR. No offense to carbotech, they make good pads and mold good material into pads (I use their hawk blue material pads in fact), but that was the worse brake pad switch I ever saw. They took off both caliper bolts, the brake line bolts (that hold the line to the shock) and used some pliers to push the piston back into the caliper. ouch. I swear the operation took at least 30 minutes... Adam (RS on this board) even told them to just take off the bottom caliper bolt and swing it up, they ignored him. sigh.

Oh well, hopefully I'll get some mpegs encoded soon of the track day.

 

very cool...must have been nice.i wanted to go but it got sold out before i could get money...ole well there's always next year

 

NICE!!! we-todd-did racing in full effect!!!! (jus jokin bro.. )

D

 

To clarify.. "hit the concrete and stop" means "allowed the car to travel in a straight line through the grass to some unused pavement up ahead then utilized the brakes to slow and stop the vehicle" not "hit a wall and stopped" that came out a little confusing.

 

Hey Dave,
I would have asked you guys to help switch out the pads but did not want to cut into your track time. The passenger side swap went much smoother. The problem was my mechanic, which did the last brake pad change, must have used an impact to put on the caliper bolts and also looks like they used thread lock grease. I'm going to bring the car to the dealer on Thurs. to fix that one frozen top bolt. The carbotech guys said I should rebuild the front calipers but you all said it does not need to be done. I'm just going to tell them to clean the calipers and grease all threads and that should do it.

I received some digital pics from a guy out there. I'll try and post them. I've never tried this before so if it does not work let me know how. I posted the pic at ImageStation.

Hopefully next event I'll have a header and high flow cat. installed. I like the DC JDM 4-1 and I'll get the Carsound cat. (high regards according to this site). But I might wait until the Great Header Test.

Adam took a ride in my car and he liked the way the Mugen suspension and rear bar felt. Sounds like his next purchase.

Man, did you look at that 944 Turbo. Its about 3 feet shorter in the rear. I do not know how that guy did it but he is lucky.

Take it easy and see ya at the next event. I'm not going to Georgia, would love to, but too far.

Allan
[IMG] [/IMG]

 

Allan: Rebuilding the calipers wont hurt.. but unless the dust boots are broken I wouldn't worry about it. Mine have 40K on them and no problems, even after some severe overheating (which cause rotor screws to break and a caliper bolt to break). Inspect them for sure, but I wouldn't worry about them.. unless of course those pliers cut the dust boot..

Yeah, the 944T was all fugged up. From what I heard he went "over" the wall in turn 16 somehow.. not sure how accurate that is though. We talked to the guy (Castel I believe his name was). He was obviously upset but took it well, and he walked away with no damage. Can't ask for more than that.

Oh yeah, those bolts need like 36 ft lbs, spank down your mech for tightening them like that, either way though, there was no need to remove the top bolt.. I like the carbotech products, I just wont let them change my brake pads ever! lol.

If you need somewhere to host those imgs, let me know.

 

I didn't listen to you because the top bolt was seized. In fact, all the caliper bolts were seized up...spec is around 46lb-ft...this equates to hand-tight if you don't use a torque wrench. These bolts were on at least to 80lb-ft...and a couple were corroded on. THIS is why they were so difficult to remove. Not to mention that touching brakes that were probably around 180-200F isn't FUN with bare hands.

You're right, changing brakes is an easy task...typically no more than 10 minutes per corner...IF everything is well maintained to begin with, which the owner of this ITR will agree with me (I'm sure...) was not the case, and if everything is not HOT.

If you take off the bottom caliper bolt and swing the caliper up, and the top bolt is binding, then you will damage the sliding mechanism. The PROPER way to do it is to complete remove BOTH bolts and remove the caliper completely.

Anyhow, I'm really not in the mood to defend my ability to change brake pads, especially on a car that was not well maintained. Perhaps I should have tossed him the pads and told him to do it himself. Getting all sweaty by sitting in front of a hot brake system and getting brake dust all over my hands for FREE isn't my idea of a good time at the track.

And yes, today is NOT my PR-day... Andie

 

Andie: I've had a frozen top bolt, and just changed them using the bottom with NO problem at all. Granted I fixed the top bolt the same weekend but still, it's easily possible to change them with a fugged up top bolt. Also, removing them when extremely hot can cause it to strip in the first place, but 200 degrees isn't really that hot IMO.

Oh, and the proper way to do something is to wait until you have the parts to actually fix it, instead of changing the pads and leaving a now stripped caliper bolt on the vehicle knowing that it's going back out on the track. I don't really wish to argue about this either.. but come on man..

BTW, I've never had a good PR experience with carbotech. First time I talked to you guys I heard the word "*******" like 4 times per sentence. Not exactly professional but I didn't care either.

Good day,

 

Who did you talk to? -Andie

p.s. Which is why we took the car out for a test drive - I tested it myself - and it was fine. Allan was asked to take it back to the tech who did the previous install (probably with an air tool at 120lb-ft) and have it fixed so I could set my mind at ease.



[Modified by CarbotechAndie, 5:06 PM 12/11/2001]

 

IIRC, Larry. But since this was.. hmm close to 2 years ago.. I don't recall honestly.

 

sounds like fun to me.... maybe i'm a ******* jacknob though...

D

 

Dear Honda-Tech.com:

For those who have read this thread, I apologize for my demeanor today. I have privated Dave with my explanation for such (though possibly inexcusable), but certainly any reason does not excuse my words on this thread.

I'll be taking a break from the Honda-Tech.com boards for a while in any case. If I can be of assistance to you guys, please do send me an e-mail, and I will try to be as helpful as possible, or send you to someone who can be of assistance.

With Best Regards,

Andie Lin


[Modified by CarbotechAndie, 5:11 PM 12/11/2001]

 

Huh? Why leave? No one is going to be upset at carbotech because we "argued" about how to change brake pads. Hell I've even praised carbotech's pads in this thread. I use them and will continue do, I don't think you need to worry about losing business over this thread Andie.

 

Dave...trust me, it's not related to this thread at all (or to you...not in the least)...check your e-mail.

Take care, guys... -Andie

 

Andie,

Sorry it was such a big deal with the brake swap but I do take VERY good care of my car. The problems you encountered were not my fault but like you said the person who touched them last. I am by no means a mechanic. I am an Architect which draws on the computer all day. I appreciate you offering to change the pads and was great because I had no clue how to do it. We both knew of the safety issue of the loosened bolt but seemed fine on the track and no problems going home. Thanks again for your help and maybe I could return the favor one day.

Allan

 

Allan...we discussed this...agreed that it was your mechanic who fouled up your brake system...I didn't mean to imply that YOU did it, buddy. For reasons I cannot write on this public board, I'm just not up to snuff today...not my brightest moment at all...and that was the reason for my apology for how I'm coming across on this thread. I could remove all my posts here, but that would be weak...so I'd rather offer a sincere apology.

On a brighter note, your ITR is beautiful...I do like the ITR very much. You were telling me about the engine mods you were planning on doing...let me know how it goes...I've seen a few ITR's that have put down pretty impressive RWHP numbers in NA form...would like to hear how yours comes along.

I really felt bad about leaving your front left caliper in a "lurch", though I did feel better about it after we went around the paddock...just a little. I kept an eye on your car for the first several laps after you went back out on the track...whatever caliper flex the system experienced on that corner apparently didn't affect braking performance. Just let me know when you get it fixed.

On my rant about changing pads for free...I do it all the time, so that wasn't a valid rant, because it's really no big deal to me. I just got all worked up because I've done pad changes in under 10 minutes per corner for several cars without a glitch...so I just got defensive when Dave commented that my brake changing abilities basically stunk. Hey, I have to agree that that particular pad change was messy...

Andie

 

Andie: I replied to your email and hope it gets better.

BTW, I did talk to Andie once on the phone, and now that I think about it, that transaction did go ok (edit: make that did go well/smoothly, had the pads quickly too), so I guess I've had one good experience so far

Allan: IM me or email me if you need me to host those pics. I've trying to get some of my car from Michel as well.


[Modified by Dave-ROR, 5:28 PM 12/11/2001]