Yes when I pulled it off the oil feed fitting/restrictor inlet was plugged with what looked like coked oil. Oil starvation was the cause of death for sure. I had assumed that running it outside it's efficiency range so far caused that much heat to cause that? That is what has been driving me crazy, was it the heat or was it terrible timing and this failure would have happened regardless.

Running 10W40 Royal Purple with K&N 1004 Filter.

 

Are you running the water lines?

 

 

Run 10W30, and if you can find a different synthetic like Amsoil (signature series), Redline, or even Mobil 1 I'd recommend that over Royal Purple. I wouldn't say that RP is a bad oil, but it's a fairly weak synthetic and I don't think the price is justified for what it actually provides.

The turbo shouldn't have popped like that even if you were slightly outside of it's efficiency range.

Post some pictures of how you have your feed and drain hooked up.

If you're not running water lines, start.

 

On "larger" turbine shafts like the GT28RS that are ball-bearing, the oil type is not nearly as important as the weight, and its ability to keep oil pressure at its needed 22psi consistently enough to lubricate the shaft and race cage to work properly.

But as stated.. Water lines are a must..

 

Haha yes of course I ran the water lines but fair question I suppose. As dumb as I have/am sounding I work on planes with turboprop engines so I have a good grasp of the implications of poor lubrication/ too much heat on a turbine. (And I like to do things by best practice and not bubba things together even if it costs double) I will try to get some pictures of the supply line. I am/have been using an AN-4 braided line and restrictor from ATP for years without issue ran from oil filter sandwich plate. Oil pressure has always been normal ~10psi per 1000RPM I'd guess. I would have to double check during a run, I'm guessing the journal bearing 18G without restrictor will influence it a bit.

But yes the whole thing seemed very odd literally nothing changed except a MBC from how it ran no problems for years. I should have grabbed a photo but the inlet definitely got plugged by black sludge/coked oil. Unless something randomly not past the filter and plugged it but this seems kind of unlikely.

So I haven't posted pictures for years what's the best photobucket alternative now that they charge $400?

I haven't started the drive the car yet as I'd like to confirm exactly why the oil supply clogged. I would suspect a bad oil filter or weak oil pump before the weight/brand of oil.

I will do more investigating and post any results I find and I appreciate your guys' help. To me it is sounding more and more like a freak occurrence that would have happened at any PSI.

Could you guys chime in on the turbo rebuild/ replacement questions. Ideally I can save as many parts from the GT2560R and put them onto a new GT28RS CHRA. When garret says housings are "outline interchangeable" that just means it will bolt in place right?

I am also assuming I would need to machine the turbine housing and probably buy a new compressor housing the have the 28RS CHRA work?

 

Talked to ATP and confirmed new compressor and turbine housings would be needed due to larger wheels. Going to visit a local reputable turbo shop Monday to find out if, and how much I am looking at to machine current housings to work. If not I will probably be piecing together a GT28RS CHRA with new housings from ATP for about $900 using existing hardware etc.

Would there be any performance decreases from running the GT28R style compressor housing with two bolt inlet and three bolt outlet? I will look into other brands of oil that I can source locally and run 10W30. This weekend I will try pulling sandwich plate and feed line to see if there is anything obvious that would have caused this.

 

Get one of these next time around

Inline Oil Filter & Oil Restrictor - Woodward Machine

 

Ok awesome I will for sure pick one of those up. Are they a lifetime part/can you change the filter element, or should I be replacing that once a year or two? To me it looks metal/serviceable. Also where is the best place to run that filter does it have to be as close to the CHRA as possible or could I put it at/close to the oil sandwich plate? As mentioned above I have been running the -4AN braided line with 90* elbow with a .035" restrictor. Is .030" all that is needed? (I've never had oil pushing past the seals)

As mentioned I will investigate and confirm what if anything obvious that would cause the oil line to get plugged. I am leaning towards piecing together a GT28RS for about $900 vs just replacing the GT2560R CHRA for $460. I'd love to have people's opinions if the upgrade is worth the extra $450. Part of me wants to step up to a GT2871R with .64 AR but I think for street driven DD I'd be happier with the response of the 28RS.

Once again thanks for the help and input guys. Hopefully my woes will help others in the future.

 

Ok awesome I will for sure pick one of those up. Are they a lifetime part/can you change the filter element, or should I be replacing that once a year or two? To me it looks metal/serviceable. Also where is the best place to run that filter does it have to be as close to the CHRA as possible or could I put it at/close to the oil sandwich plate? As mentioned above I have been running the -4AN braided line with 90* elbow with a .035" restrictor. Is .030" all that is needed? (I've never had oil pushing past the seals)

As mentioned I will investigate and confirm what if anything obvious that would cause the oil line to get plugged. I am leaning towards piecing together a GT28RS for about $900 vs just replacing the GT2560R CHRA for $460. I'd love to have people's opinions if the upgrade is worth the extra $450. Part of me wants to step up to a GT2871R with .64 AR but I think for street driven DD I'd be happier with the response of the 28RS.

Once again thanks for the help and input guys. Hopefully my woes will help others in the future.

 

Based on this thread it sounds like you're looking to bump up the power a bit, in which case yes the 28RS would be worth it while still being ultra responsive.

Photobucket has always been garbage, it always irritated the hell out of me that people used them to upload on literally every car community. With their recent bullshit policy change they've effectively ruined 10+ years worth of DIY's, build threads, and any "Official Post your [x]" threads. Absolutely sucks.

Use imgur.com, they've been around for quite awhile, have a great interface and capabilities, and are free and show no signs of implementing some BS system like PB any time soon.

 

Yeah I'm really leaning towards the 28RS as this is what I planned my build around and thought I had the whole time. I should have clued in when 15PSI only wanted to make 230whp and 230wtq, I figured it was the design flaws of the Greddy manifold and elbow, combined with a "2.5" (2.36") inch World sport 2 and CAT with a safe conservative tune on 91 Octane.

I am thinking that with those parts the GT2871 won't be as enjoyable for my use.

Also thanks I will check out imgur it is incredibly frustrating that PB had indeed ruined a TON of how to articles etc.

 

The GReddy Exhaust manifold really isn't the source of your exhaust backpressure issues, it's the rest of the exhaust system. I recommend at minimum to be at a 2.75" from the integration elbow to the the WS Muffler, which you could still keep. But the exhaust manifold isn't the reason why you're experiencing hesitation during acceleration.

Now that you've given more information, I'm willing to bet that the reason for the starvation was due to a bit of metal babbitt or carbon deposit from your oil blocking the oil opening of the oil feed inlet. Remember, to get the proper oil pressure, those fittings use a very tiny .030" opening, and it doesn't take much to clog it. I've found that's happened to me a few times, and (before using an inline oil filter) was lucky I was able to catch it during a random check. (It doesn't mean you have to have your oil analyzed by the "oil guy" necessarily, but with this kind of stuff, carbon deposits are always bound to get into your oil, which could cause the starvation.) Water cooling wouldn't have been able to save it anyway.

I think going up to the GTX2860R (or something similar like a Rogue) would be an even better than going with your disco potato.. They both use the same 54mm exhaust wheel, and the midrange difference is incredible. If you're going to spend money on a Supercore, just do it once, for as much as we like to stay super-budget oriented, this is one of those times where you have a great opportunity to get some good technology changes in the setup. Sure, a Disco could work, but even I have to admit, these newer units have a much broader range of utility than the designs of over 20 years ago like with the potato.

 

Thanks for taking the time Shodan lots of good info there. I will the a look at the GTX2860R but fear with a mortgage as well as an S13 and Mk3 Supra wanting attention will limit me on spending.

I was thinking the same thing it definitely looked sludgey. Which would also make sense as the car has generally been running fat during tuning at WOT.

I will definitely be checking the oil filter. Would you go with the same inline filter that lightning recommended?

I can only guess that running the car hard and at a higher output may have dislodged/forced something into the line. Correct me if I'm wrong but do sandwich plates not supply oil before it it has been filtered?

As far as the exhaust goes I have considered an e-cutout with dual tune. I still need to get emissions done so I will probably run the current setup until the CAT is done. Now if I keep the greddy kit elbow would there be any benefit to going to a larger diameter pipe but also retaining that 2.36" WS muffler? Main thing I want is A/C compatible which I haven't been able to find a replacement for so far, it would probably have to be custom made at this point.

Would there be significant gains worth cutting and welding flanges on exhaust and CAT and running a test pipe?

I just want to confirm .030" is all these turbos need and it's not beneficial to run a .035" if it's not pushing oil past the seals?

 

All the more reason to do it right this time around. Save a little more, and you'll be fine. If you couldn't afford it, you wouldn't have been doing this in the 1st place with this many projects. You pay to play.

Running rich like that is in the tune itself, as well as a possible physical problem. You can't merge the two concepts together like that



That's exactly what you're doing.. guessing, and guessing wrong, at that. Running the car hard has nothing to do with it, other than the possibility that the oil that you were running was susceptible to thermal breakdown. However, in comparison to most that are using that same turbocharger, they were being much more abusive than what you were doing, and survived just fine. Nothing gets forced into the line, only something possibly breaking off if you used substandard materials. But it's rather moot to try and pinpoint it like that. With the thousands of GT turbo rebuilds I've dealt with, a vast majority of them were due to exactly what I'm telling you, and it's really more of a "**** happens" approach, then just one other part being responsible for the entire problem.

To more directly answer your question, no, most oil sandwich plates do not put filtered oil into the feed line, even if they are connected to the oil filter. This is why the inline filter is needed so much, especially in ball-bearing models that use small orifices as their way of regulating oil pressure at the oil feed inlet channels within the CHRA.

I've just finished working with a Supra owner who had the same process. No, you want a 2.75" out as quickly as possible from the turbine outlet, as that's where any excess exhaust backpressure will be. The e-cutout helps, but due to the length of the smaller downpipe, you'll still experience the hesitation you're trying to eliminate. No emissions is going to give a damn about a 3" downpipe vs a 2.5" with an E-cutout. To them, it's all illegal, because they consider what you're doing as a custom retrofit. So you're at the mercy of them whatever you put on there.

NO.

You can use .030" or .035". It still regulates Garrett GT(X) Ball-bearing turbochargers to the same 22psi requirement. Other companies may vary. You don't push pass the oil sealing rings in a ball-bearing turbo like that. They're a little different than what you're used to seeing in the journal bearing world. But it's not the just the size of the hole, it's how the oil is delivered. In other words, don't get those stupid .035" flange styled restrictors. They destroy turbos very quickly.

 

What "Rogue" turbo are you talking about? Haven't heard of that and Google is failing me right now (just brings up Nissan results).

 

Cool thanks again for all the info! Yeah when I read it back quoted it shows that it drives me crazy to not know exactly what happened with things like this and will try to rationalize it however unlikely a scenario vs accepting "**** happens" but I have pretty well accepted it at this point. Key is now preventing it from ever happening again which I feel much more confident in now with your guys' suggestions.

I will mull over the upgrade to the turbo and exhaust but my issue is I really can't afford all my projects right now and if it comes down to selling one of them VS spending less on one the answer is easy for me. (The Canadian exchange rate does not help)

As far as the exhaust goes is there anyone still making an A/C compatible elbow in larger sizes?

 

Not with a GT 5bolt flange like that. Not pre-fabricated. If you got the exhaust manifolds from a reputable source that also makes downpipes, maybe. Otherwise, not likely.

 

Http://imgur.com/hraNySE
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

​​​​​​Sandwhich plate gasket.

 

Who made that one?

 

Prosport. It's too bad because it actually did its job pretty well for a good 7+ years. Guess that's my fault for not taking it off / checking it more often but it was one of those things of don't screw with it if it's not leaking.

The piece that clogged restrictor was that missing chunk I'm pretty sure it had a similar look/ texture just more "baked"

 

Well, there are nicer ones out now that can replace that piece, and even allow for additional fittings for sensors and other accessories to monitor oil. They still won't replace the benefits of an inline oil filter, but they are a better insurance policy from Material breaking off on Ann and destroying the turbo a second time. Remember, it does not take much to obstruct a feed fitting.

you can always run an oil feed line off of the oil sending unit, keeping the sandwich plate open for other accessory like an oil cooler, or other oil-related accessories.

 

Yeah I am planning on running one of those inline filters for sure. Is there a specific brand plate you would suggest as I do like the convenience for hooking up gauges etc. I might still do a dedicated turbo feed from sender as well.

At least now I can say with some certainty what caused it to fail and can address it vs not having a clue and risking another turbo.

Thanks once again Shodan your helpfulness lives up to your reputation having patience with those not as knowledge but wanting to learn is a great trait.