Sorry to see this unpleasant interlude in your motorsports. Hopefully you can salvage much and get back to enjoying the good stuff with minimal cost in dollars and time.

Scott, who knows this risk haunts each of our futures...glad you're ok...

 

wow scary, glad you are ok, where was this shannonville?

 

Might take a while, but you'll come back from it. Sorry for your bent metal and glad you are OK.

Curious about the failure. What do you attribute it to since you've had it two times? Failure due to loose parts, use of impact guns, too much torque, previous impacts on old parts, used parts of unknown origin? Curious because I have been tracking my ITR and have never had a failure of a suspension piece other than an inner joint on an axle, and I'm running around 300 WHP. How can a hub break, and twice even. Obviously has some nasty consequences one would want to avoid.

 

I wish I had something to answer.

I am pretty much OCD about maintenance, torquing, inspecting.

Hopefully i'll find a clean chassis, before I let every parts go for too little money.

 

For the sake of all of us we should try to figure out why this has happened to prevent further accidents like this. If I'm not mistaken the ITR hubs are thicker than the ones on a Civic? Maybe Honda saw this as a necessary thing for a track duty car? Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

 

damn dude, glad you're alright!

 

Buy a RWD car next time and you won't have problems with rotation.

 

Are you able to get a very close-up high quality picture of the fracture? Was this an OEM hub journal from the original car? Was it replaced? What company? Hub torque (preload) could have played a role in its failure... I worked on these parts during my co-op at SKF and we found that the plain white box parts failed in about 1/3 the time that the SKF parts did - and sometimes even more prematurely because of their poor material and hardening processes. If this is an OEM then the part must have been previously damaged and fatigued or the chassis has a ton of miles and for some reason the bearing has never gone bad. Makes you almost want your bearings to go bad because at least those show signs of failure through vibration/sound/heat before the just let go.

Glad you are OK and found a good setup and good luck with the next build.

 

+1 on the close up of the failure.

Glad you are uninjured

 

Were the hubs ever pulled out of the knuckle to replace the bearings? If so, was it done properly with a press or was a BFH technique used? And was it properly pressed back in? How was the bearing race removed from the hub? torched off, cut-off, pressed off or BFH technique? Are you using all OEM Honda parts or aftermarket?

 

Hey.

I had the chance to quickly recover physically (although upper back and neck still hurts sometime), and be able to build a new car, with many of the old car parts...without spending too much money on the new chassis (had good luck...finally...even though the car dolly BROKE while towing the new chassis.....but that's another story.)

The new chassis is more of an HPDE car...without a cage or a roll bar yet.

Had my 1st track event with it yesterday...and while it wasn't as aggressive as the old chassis, it felt pretty good to be back in there. I couldn't drive to a very high % of the car (and the driver) since I still have psychological limitations due to the car being freshly built...but I can say the rotation and general feeling of the car was great, although not as sharp as the old chassis... yet.

As for the cause of the precedent failure, I still don't understand. Origin of bearings and installation was unknown...axles could have been overtorqued...some people who knows a lot more than me in engineering (I don't know jack) say the axle nose probably have failed, which resulted in the hub failing too. I have no idea.

I am pretty confident my brand new (not rebuilt) axles, as well as everything else brand new from Honda will hold perfectly for the next steps of my quest to suspension bliss.

On topic....i've managed to get -2.5 neg camber with OEM UCA up front...using OEM CTR front LCA....i couldn't measure them since my old LCA were bent, but do anyone know if they are a few mm longer, to allow a tad more camber ? New alignment specs are -2.5 up front and -2.0 in the rear. Rotation was moderate...but as said earlier, I couldn't bring optimal speed in the curves as I am learning some things again with the new car.

Also, I've installed a 9 teeth pinion from an 94-01 integra into a PS 96-00 rack...original pinion has 8 teeth...coupled to an OEM sized steering, it helped me have a very sharp turn-in. Allows me to be more aggressive at corner entry...very nice upgrade if you're wondering about doing it.

Should be back for more discussion as soon as I get to make one with the car again.

P.

 

They are diff part# then (E/JDM) EJ9/EK3/4, so I asked myself this q too. I attributed this to stiffer bushings, since the compensator bushing is also diff part#.

So nothing for sure yet. I should check with the two locals who own/imported an EK9 or the ones who aquired the LCAs from the two imported-for-parts 9s.

 

Concerning the pinion, is fits the rack teeth perfectly. The pinion I took out of an integra rack was esthetically identical to the civic one (unlike some that can be seen on this forum). I also will look for wear after a few events with the car. Honnestly, from the look of it, the teeth are all exactly the same and fit very well together.

As the confidence is coming back behind the wheel, I feel like I need more front negative camber again... I may give the SPC balljoint a try.

P.

 

Ok had another few events with the car.

Conclusion is, front camber kit (to go at least -3) is an absolute requirement to have somewhat of a good rotating car (for people who like it loose).

The car doesn't understeer much neither as is though, in fact i never had such a neutral car. It is great for me to safely get used with the new chassis...

I could not get any rotation out of tire pressure and shock rebound adjustments. Nothing could make it rotate more. The lap time were good nonetheless (on my personnal scale, compared to the old chassis), so the car was appreciatly fast...

I've got 2 track days coming up this week. I'm gonna give the front swaybar a break and see how it will affect rotation of a perfectly neutral car.

Ultimately, i'll add SPC balljoint, get close to -3.5 neg front camber. But just not yet.......

Until next time...

P.

 

What tires are you running and what size? And where did you get your sway bars?

 

205-50-15 Khumo XS on a 7 inch wheel. I'm trying to obtain my desired results on street tires. I've got the front 26mm swaybar from the dealer (Canadian 99-00 SIR, US SI I guess). The ASR 24mm can be obtained from any ASR dealer.

As for my quest, well I have great news. After a lot of searching for some numb steering feeling on my car, i've found that the steering rack was a bit loose in its place. It moved slightly in its bracket even on a stock car (checked my beater)...but I could feel it...probably from being over precautious due to my recent hub failure/concrete wall crash.

This was my 6th outing with the car since its build...and the last upgrade was SPC UCA balljoint, and 1/8 total toe out up front.

ROTATION is BACK. Without changing anything else. This is the 3rd proof (thanks to you guys, telling me since page 1 of last year). From camber is mandatory.

Almost makes me think that some people compensate for the lack of front camber with.........rear spring rate and big swaybars. What a band-aid...

I have a question. About rear UCA. They're bent. U-shaped. I friend of mine had them inverted. Inverted-U shaped. Would that increase rear roll resistance...supposing they're more...resistant ? Does it make a difference at all...just throwing it out there. I have no idea...just found the though interesting.

I can design you a vaccine, but I can't figure that simple thing out.

Pat...who enjoyed rotation. And who has 1200lbs springs on order...to test some more things out.

 

Glad your alright bud, sorry to hear about the ride!

 

This is a superb read guys

 

This topic is making a come back, as I am back on the track full time for the summer.

I am now running 1200lbs/26mm/-3.5 F, 1000lbs/24mm/-2.5 R, 0 toe. Street tires.

It suits very well my aggressive inputs, braking is GREAT, transitions are very sharp. Rotation is OK. I only ran on 1 circuit yet.

I have basically no inside* rear lift. Which is where it all started for me...

My car is way too low right now. About 5 inch to jack point on 205 50 15.

This week, the only modification will be the front bar removal...to try it out. If it isn't concluent, i'll put it back on and open up the rear toe a bit (very little, as my outside rear dictates pretty much how everything will behave). I may go back to -2.0 rear camber, too. I'll try not to increase rear rates for now.

I bought a data logger, so from now on, i'll TRY (.......) to accept the rotation that I have, and instead of always trying to get more and more, i'll let the timer speak.

I'll keep this topic updated, in case it serves anyone else.

 

The arm might be bent, but inverting it will not re-position the pivots, thus, no change to anything.

Hmmm, ORL? doesn't sound right to me...

 

Hahahaha...ORL is pretty hardcore.

Inside, yes.

 

Very informative topic.

I took the time to read every post carefully and it helped me alot.

 

Glad your back. Another EK I presume?

 

Yes, still a hatchback.

 

I removed the front 26mm bar. It feels a bit better, to my taste.

It didn't back when I tried removing it with 950lbs springs.

I ran the Hankook RS3 in 225/45/15 last week-end...grip is phenomenal, especially at braking. Not much faster than the Khumo XS...but I lack data to conclude anything.

Next,

I removed 1 degree of rear negative camber.

I opened up the rear toe just a little bit (spec limit at the OUT end)

Will be testing it 2 days this week-end.

I am pretty close to what suits my driving needs. I'd like more turn-in rotation for slower tracks, but am glad of the stability on faster tracks. I know, there is no perfect set-up for every tracks...but everything's a compromise right.

I may give a try to an extra 150-200lbs rear springs...but I am pretty sure I can achieve what I want with current set-up, toe tuning, hot pressures and rebound adjustment.