ok so i have a b16 engine on a p28 ecu on my 1993 del sol.

I don't know where to start, i want to start modding this engine so i can get as much hp out of it as possible.

should i start with high performance plugs and wire sets? (NGK)

or maybe i should invest in a distributor cap with external coil (MSD)..

Currently im looking to start out small (from wires,plugs,filters,etc..) then move on to bigger things like (pistons, turbo,cams, etcc..)

maybe chip my ecu first???

Im new to the car world so some nice explanations as to why i should buy X part would be a good idea, lol i just don't want someone giving me a list and say BUY!

 

Intake, header, exhaust first

 

First do all your preventive maintanance.

timming belt
oil
oil filter
fuel filter
air filter
cap
rotor
plugs (oem is great)
wires ( ngk is great )

then once all this is done do

Header
intake
exhaust

get p28 chipped and tuned for mods above.

then decide what route you want to go:

turbo or NA

as you will have to buy different parts for each setup, and you dont want to buy parts twice.


Best way to learn, is read here what other people have done with each setup and see if they match your goals ( hp wise and financially wise )

 

^What he said.

 

you guys are awesome... i posted this same exact thing at the civic forums a day ago and i've gotten all views but no replies

ok so this is what ive done so far

new fuel filter
new oil filter
new oil
new spark plugs (platnium from autozone...are they ok?)
new wires (cheap ebay 10.2mm.. worst thing ive ever bought)
new cap+rotor (from autozone)

EDIT: i also have a long CAI in place

so for the spark plug wires.. i hear mixed reviews on OEM or NGK Blues... what are you guy's opinion on them?

EDIT2: also.. why do intake, headers, and exhaust make such a big base start?

EDIT3: also.. what is everyones opinion on ebay headers and intakes? (not for their cheap prices... like the $100 headers here

also.. where can i buy exhausts?

 

plugs and wires both should be ngk from the factory so id go back with that. there should be a sticker under the hood that gives you part numbers. just go to autozone and theyll have em.

intake header and exhaust are the place to start learning. they arent complicated to do, but it helps you get ur hands in the engine bay and learn what things look like and hopefully how they work. they wont get you big gains, but you gotta start with the basics. and definitely get it tuned on a dyno after those so you can make the most out of the upgrades.

definitely do a timing belt and you might as well replace the tensioner too. i couldnt imagine anything worse than getting a new car, starting to put money into it to get it where you want it and then something catastrophic happens like the timing belt breaks or jumps time.

you asked for some explanations so ill get into some basics.

an engine is an air pump. yours is a 1595cc air pump, which means that for every 2 rotations of the crank shaft, under perfect conditions, your engine moves 1595cc of air. an engines ability to move air is called its volumetric efficiency, so if your engine moved 1595cc of air every 2 crank rotations that would be 100% volumetric effiency. but very few engines(or maybe none at all) work at 100% VE from the factory. a high performance engine from the factory is probably around 85-95% VE. so the more air combined with the right amount of fuel you can get into the engine, the more power it will make. basic mods like I/H/E help the engine flow more air.

so there are 2 ways to look at how much power your engine is making, first is torque. torque is the rotational force that the crankshaft is applying. second is horsepower, HP is a measure of the ability to do work. alot of people think of HP and torque as separate things, but they arent. without torque, you dont have HP. C=(A x B)/5252 C is HP, A is torque(at a certain rpm), B is RPM(where you got your torque reading from). so for instance, we have an engine making 150ft/lbs of torque@7000rpm, that engine then is making 199.9hp@7000rpm. the point of this is that there are 2 things that affect how much HP an engine makes, those being torque and RPM. also dont be fooled by peak numbers from an engine. they often dont mean anything. its the torque and HP curves that tell you something about an engine.

there are 2 basic ways to build a full-time more powerful engine:

1)naturally aspirated. with this kind of engine you are doing everything possible to help the engine breath more air on its own(increasing volumetric efficiency)., things like more aggressive cams, porting the head, bigger valves, all help to get more air in and out of the cylinders. boring and stroking the engine increases the size of the cylinders so that you can fit more air in them. so when the day is done, a performance naturally aspirated engine will either be capable of high rpms, or make alot of torque.....or it will be somewhere in between.

2)forced induction. adding a turbosupercharger, or supercharger to an engine actually forces more air into the cylinders. they create positive pressure in the intake manifold so that instead of the engine sucking in air, the supercharger is pushing in air, in most cases it is compressing more air into the cylinder than the actual size of the cylinder(for example a cylinder of 500cc or .5L might have 800cc or .8L of air compressed into it). so again, more air+the right amount of fuel, ignited at the right time=more power. forced induction or boosted engines dont need to run high rpms because since we are pushing more air into the cylinders they make enough torque at lower rpms to give us respecatble HP.

so once you decide to move on with actually building your engine, you will need to make that choice because the 2 methods are very different. there are many choices that will be the same for all performance engines. but naturally aspirated and forced induction are usually very different paths.

 

the engine thats in my 1993 del sol is a swap.. also i have a replacement hood so there no stickers =(. I heard that when i buy car parts i should be saying 1997 del sol vtec or 2000 si

Force induction sounds appealing enough to want to start on that... first things first.. i plan to use the car as a weekend car and also a track car.. would that point to turbo or N/A

 

bump for more awesome advice

what is everyones opinion on ebay headers and intakes? (not for their cheap prices... like the $100 headers here

also.. where can i buy exhausts or are they called something else?

 

Nothing points to N/A or turbo its just what you want. Dont forget you get what you pay for look at those spark plug wires you got and think.

 

what kinda track? drag? autox? road course? something else? all of these need something a lil bit different from the engine so u kinda have to pick one and aim in that direction.



what B16 do you have? A, A1, A2, A3? the NGK part number for B16A3 plugs is PFRL6-13.

 

I'll say what most people won't.
You have a b16 and want to make power you got 3 options

-Nitrous
-Turbo
- Swap blocks

It takes a ton of time / money thats better spent else where, then trying to make a oem longblock b16 fast..
Swap in a gsr block or a b20 or a LS block and get a better platform.

 

Quarter mile

A2 JDM
I have the part numbers for the plugs: BKR6EIX-11 and wires: HE64

i believe im gonna invest in turbo. I got the car for free so im gonna try and work with what i got (my mechanic was going to throw it away because it had bad cosmetic damage which i got repaired )

 

this completely depends on the ultimate goal. it is very true that more displacement means more potential(and usually a lower dollar per HP ratio to get to the goal). but if the goal is 200hp, then the B16 will do that with ease. if 300hp is the goal then unless you have alot of cash to dump into it......any of those alternatives will need FI or nitrous.

ive been wondering about a poormans b16b.........modified some. GSR block, b16 stroker kit(81.5mm bore x 84.68mm stroke 1766cc), b16b rods, b16 head. as an NA engine that would give you a proven high rpm setup(yes more stroke, but its still less than a GSR so maybe its a nice middle ground between stroke and extreme rpms), the added stroke directly affects torque, great potential from the head. average piston speed @9000rpm is 5001feet/minute which is less than the F20C which combined with a high rod/stroke ratio of 1.68:1 means there is more sideloading on the cylinder walls but not a huge increase over a stock b16.
rod to stroke ratio of some options are:
stock B18c 1.58:1
stock b20 1.539:1
stock b16 1.745:1
stock b16b 1.84:1
stroked b16 1.58:1
stroked b16b 1.68:1
the stroked b16b sits almost exactly in the middle of the range. only 4% increase over a stock B16 and a 9% increase over a stock b16b.

sounds like a winner to me.

 

ok, cool. well first i suggest you head over to the forced induction room to get more accurate and experience-based advice.

2nd, a b16 has a relatively high compression ratio from the factory. that being the case, you have 2 options:
1 swap your pistons with some that will give you a lower compression ratio so that you can run higher boost without blowing the engine.
2 keep the engine as it is and run low boost.

in general its easier and safer to get more power when running lower compression and high boost. this is by far the more popular option.

good luck with the build.

also dont forget, with more GO, u need more WHOA. dont forget suspension, brakes, and tires. as well as drivetrain upgrades. you dont want to get the engine built, and tuned and ready to go. show up at the track and break ur clutch or an axle on the first launch.

good luck.

 

Actually, with the advancement of engine management systems, this is no longer a popular option by any means. In fact, many of the turbocharged applications are intentionally keeping the engines at over 10.0:1 compression or going even higher, because of changes in tuning methods have made creating reliable power with higher compression engines more common, the availability of a variety of specific turbos that match the needs of the higher compression crowd can now fit the need for those that want high compression for better off boost acceleration and control, and for those on a budget, they can now run reliable power without the need of milling the head, changing gaskets, or changing pistons.

TO the OP, please make sure that you get quality parts used if not new, and for heaven's sake, e-bay is not your friend. There is no need to rsort to that vendor (or series of vendors) to purchase horribly made products

 

i was referring more to the DIY guy in the driveway thats piecing together a turbo setup. i know the manufacturers have all but moved away from the low compression era. most of this step away from low compression is as a result of the more and more commonly used direct injection that more effectively controls detonation even with higher compression temps and pressures(caused by relatively high static compression combined with relatively high boost pressures) since the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber at the exact moment its needed. i predict that at some point in the near future, spark plugs will only be a backup and gasoline engines will primarily be compression ignition engines.

if i had the money i would engineer a VGT(whether its twin scroll or VNT, or other options) setup for the B series(to start with). a complete kit with all hardware and software. test and tune the different displacements,, compression ratios, cam profiles, heads, etc.......to be able to give customers a more individual kit(most likely id select a turbo suitable for all of them and the only change would be the software) . once i get my production and R&I system down, as well as a tried and true product, move to include other honda engines(as well as different stages), and then other manufacturers. early, but predictable and progressive torque(we dont want it in the ditch), keep it strong throughout the rev range. and youll have an engine that is ready to take on anything on the track as well as being a perfectly suitable and calm engine under part throttle(around town). provided the internals have been properly strengthened by the owner.

 

My goal is to make atleast 250hp

i honestly don't have much of a budget.. if im going to do this.. i want to do it right (i also have the b16a2 not b16b, i don't know if that was in general or not)

from now on im limiting myself to name brand parts wether its on ebay or the manufacturers website, only namebrand will touch my engine

you guys are great, i love all the info im getting =D

 

There's a thread on here, with a guy who barely made 200whp, to be exact 208, and probably spent about 2500 dollars on the entire build.
With that said, 2500 dollars spent on a b20vtec will yield you close to your results..

 

yeah i was just kinda doing some thinking out-loud with the b16b.

ok, so low budget, 250hp.........how much experience do you have with working on cars?

 

when i said i didn't have much of a budget, i meant that im prob willing to spend a good 4 to 5 grand on the engine.. i can do most things with cars my self, my friend has a shop that i go to and work on my car there... from a scale from 1 to 10.. id say im a 4 or 5 on mechanical stuff and a 10 on electrical stuff

dang, like i said, im not planning to do the whole... i think i can hit 500hp by only spending $400 thing.. i want to go all out on this motor

 

hahahahaha, 4-5k will get you one helluva b series. ok, well first thing when you start something like this is ask lots of questions, get alot of opinions and facts first. you need to get a good base of knowledge and understanding before you go buying stuff.

you need to build a good foundation and work from there. so if it were me, id pull the block out and tear it down. take the block to a good engine or machine shop and have them completely clean and check it out, fixing anything no matter how minor it is. during this time youll need to decide if you want to go with a larger bore, if so the shop will do that, and also if you are staying N/A or going FI(for a b16 to hit 250+hp with 4-5k you will have to go FI). next is a forged rotating assembly(pistons, rings, rods, bearings, crank), and have it balanced. the installation is a very precise thing that you CAN do with plastigauge(although ill never use it except in some kind of emergency) but is best done with a good set of micrometers. after that, alot of things are going to depend completely on NA or FI. like i said, you really need to head to the forced induction room to get the best info on that.

 

lol i hope so

thats why this thread was created for my b16 build project that im going to be working on
im probably gonna need some help with this...
ok.. first off.. i need to look for a machine shop, i don't know where i can find them

I am most likely going to go with FI on this one.., i believe my next stop is the FI thread to see what it is that i need exactly done at the machine shop correct?

also.. with 4 to 5k on the engine.. do you think i could probably hit the 300 mark or am i just dreaming?

 

definitely. but whether you can build the engine to last AND hit 300hp with your budget.....im not really sure. maybe.

 

ok.. and just another question as a funfact.. if i were to go N/A.. would 250hp still be achievable? (perhaps 300? with $4-$5k?)

 

with a b20vtec or a bored out lsvtec, yes.