you are never gonna reach the stock potential of an H22 with a F series engine. just wont happen... DOHC produces more HP and TQ then a SOHC any day of the week.. plus your gonna have your crack your F series block and build it to even make it capable of supporting a turbo with 10psi or more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwicecold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are never gonna reach the stock potential of an H22 with a F series engine. just wont happen... DOHC produces more HP and TQ then a SOHC any day of the week.. plus your gonna have your crack your F series block and build it to even make it capable of supporting a turbo with 10psi or more. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You talkin ta me? Or just carrying on the idiotic ramblings from a year ago?

 

true according to turbonetics the f23 can hold upto 8psi with stock internals ... but same goes for the h22 ... the f23 is cast iron son ... and the h22 and the f23 have about the same torque give or take a few ... the only thing the h22 has over the f23 stock is the head ...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FunnyVictor86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">true according to turbonetics the f23 can hold upto 8psi with stock internals ... but same goes for the h22 ... the f23 is cast iron son ... and the h22 and the f23 have about the same torque give or take a few ... the only thing the h22 has over the f23 stock is the head ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's great that you're an advocate for the F and all, but it doesn't help the cause to just throw hearsay and he said/she said out there. It's especially meaningless coming from a company that produces products, and doesn't specialize in utilizing those products.

Let's keep this thread on track this time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwicecold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are never gonna reach the stock potential of an H22 with a F series engine. just wont happen... DOHC produces more HP and TQ then a SOHC any day of the week.. plus your gonna have your crack your F series block and build it to even make it capable of supporting a turbo with 10psi or more. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what rock have you been under. you sir need to check your source of information.

10psi on a f series is nothing... not to mention 10 psi on what turbo?, it makes a difference so you might want to be specific.

regardless i pushed as much as 18 or so psi to a BONE stock f22b1 with a pretty large t3/60-1 soooooo your statement is false. I am not the only one to prove this, there is at least a dozen others here as well I can think of off the top of my head right now... not to mention those I cant.

generalizations are nonsense. this is an old arguement and i still have the f... although some things have changed since the old setup...


BACK ON THE TOPIC... i might update this with my new numbers but i will see what else others are doing first since i am not an f23 but rather i am an f22.


Modified by twkdCD595 at 2:51 PM 9/2/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's great that you're an advocate for the F and all, but it doesn't help the cause to just throw hearsay and he said/she said out there. It's especially meaningless coming from a company that produces products, and doesn't specialize in utilizing those products.

Let's keep this thread on track this time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

aside from the boost ... im just speaking facts lol ... but i see your point ... were getting off track ... my bad

 

I make 265 WHP and 255 FT/LBS @ 9psi. Totally Stock F23A1.

 

what would be an ideal setup for an f23a1. isnt the f23 the same bore and stroke as an h22. and can u really swap the heads. how hard is that. im not going boost dont like it. not natural. i grew up on building domestics for bout 10 years and this is my first attempt at an import. so far dont like it. to much electronics for me. i have the stock tb on it and i found a skunk 2 70mm tb be for the f23a1. how will that help. just looking to build a sleeper any help. thanx

 

I partly agree with this. An H swap is a pretty good improvement over even a slightly modified F23 in 6th gen Accords, but with the weight factored in, I'd say they're just moving into the 'swapped and still slow' club. The H22 really shines in the 4th and 5th gen Accords.

The fact is, MOST Accord owners who swap an H22 or F20b into their Accords don't modify the motor NEARLY as much as most Prelude owners who's cars came with that engine. There are a few H swapped Accords where the owner went all out and build a 200whp+ motor or boosted, but I'd say 90% of the H22 Accords I've seen go no further than I/H/E.

Some believe an Accord can only be fast after an H swap. I feel a sense of gratification knowing that I haven't spent enough to do an H swap, yet I can still make better numbers than a stock H22, and even pull car lengths on a lightly modified H swapped 6th gen.

I see it as two types of Accord owners. The ones that believe in the F's potential (unproven as it may be) and try their hand at modifying it, and those who prefer to just do a swap and be done with it.

I find the biggest downfall of the F23 is the lack of owners willing to use a true engine management setup, and instead just throw bolt-ons at it. That's where I've found my greatest gains.


I believe so too, but only to a certain extent. The H is going to easily have more potential, but who's to say the F can't keep up with it to around 200whp without spending more money?


You need to do a bit more research, but it appears that an H22 swap would be right up your alley. Once you get past the wiring issues of the install, and add some bolt-ons, you'll probably have all you want out of the car.

PS. And you can sell the F23 to me for cheap!

 

Truth.

Not even debatable.

Im a F lover and all, but its the truth... The H is NO weaker on stock sleeves than the F (actually the FRMS are STRONGER... The issue is FRMs lack of playing well with forged slugs). Its the Pistons, specifically the ringlands that are suspect to damage - a sub par tune will **** any cast piston Honda motor up. Being conservative on the timing, or making SURE youre running fuel adequate for your CYLINDER pressure is key (as mentioned before... PSI is way to relatuive a term to be used here). Hence the lower compression of the F is more forgiving tune wise due to a much more friendly detonation threshold than the higher compression H... But thats it

The F has lower compression, thats about its only "advantage" for boosting it. A good tuner will make that not enough to even make it an arguable point...

The iron liners (Fs sleeves are NOT IRON, the LINERS are... The sleeves are aluminum just like the block casting; with iron liners.... LIke a B series block.

Mod for mod it (The H) WILL make more power... Is it the be all end all? No. The F is a VERY underestimateed powerplant... BUt the H is a much more effieicent motor out of the box. ANYONE whom argues it is a ****ing moron.

The Ax heads have superior port geomewtry, but like I said, MOD FOR MOD (You can poort Hs too>> LOL)... The H will perform better...


I rocked a sohc when TWKD95CD5 and I held the F series highest Stock block numbers on HT.... SO Im not just talking out of my ***, nor do I have it in for the F... Its a VERY stout choice for powerplant... A fresh bore, set of forged slugs, stock rods and MAKE SURE YOU RUN A DAMPENER (No lightweight crank pulley bullshit) and you have a SOLID foundation for 400 WHP. ALL DAY.

My stock F setup.. DYno at 6 PSI Basemap... and 9-10 PSI on a .48/.50 57 trim T3/04e turbo... STock from pan to rail:



That was on 450s,
STOCK fuel system (including pump)
Stock MAP sensor.

Put a 3 bar in it, 880s and bigger FMIC and made 305/307 on 15 psi... Turned it up to 19 and TRIED to blow it up... IOd say around 330-340 ish... All I did was blow a ringland out of number 4. Then I put this in it:







Pump 92 vs Trick 114 (with fouled plugs running out of fuel on the racegas tune... Fixed now, it makes 630WHP


Thats 520 WHP at 17 PSI on 92
620 WHP at 25 falling to 23 up top on race gas...




Im not just talking out of my ***...

Little 140 rip with 4 peoiplein it shifting like a girl (OLD CLUTCH SUCKED ***, Twin disk now)






Accord love SON!!!

 

Its been a year and half since this thread has started and the debate is still continuing. It took me almost 40 minutes to digest all the things you guys posted. Keep it interesting and clean. lol

 

I guess if you held the highest whp at 244 whp with an F who does now?

I see now you made 305, the graph was just not there...

 

I wish this thread hadn't gone to s***.

It'd be nice if TouringAccord or another moderator could clean it up, and maybe edit Eric's first post to reflect the top five of each N/A, nitrous, and boost setups with a brief mod list of each.

If that would take too much of their time, I wouldn't mind compiling the numbers that are here myself, and PM them a rough draft of everything.

EDIT: Let's try restarting this topic, ON TOPIC, and keep it clean.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/highest-f23-dynos-1-4-mile-times-2475653/

 

Reading this has me fired up for the F23 build again. I put it on the backburner, i could be done by now if I just stuck to it......... AFAccord, what do you think my ported F23 head would do on your build with that BISI cam? i've heard Honda guys have experienced 1 hp for every 2.5 cfm. So my head flows 288cfm @ .400 (28in H2O) vs the stock somewhere like 220 maybe. I say I'm hitting 200whp easy and 185lb/ft at a reasonable (-7000) RPM.

 

No real way to tell IMO. A shop could port the hell out of a head and make it flow tremendous amounts, but if it's not done in a way that improves fuel atomization and increases velocity, it might produce worse results than a stock head.

 

no worries about my head. its done right. we'll see in time i guess.

 

hahha.. you guys are funny.

 

344.6whp at 14psi

 

[QUOTE=BlkChryKord;27171053]I'm trying to make my H22 loving friend a believer that the F23 has just as much potential on boost or N/A as his H22, without sleeving.

Looking for highest N/A or Boost, streetable, with dyno charts to back up the info.

All I've found so far is one guy's F23 in a 96 Accord w/ RSX pistons hitting 177hp/187tq on a dynapack. - Funny thing is that that's more than what my buddies H22 is putting out w/ JUN cams and supertech springs/retainers.




where can i find this dyno sheet?

 

well i'm ordering my bisi cam now. *click* AFACCORD..........just how long do you think it'll be till you can dyno?

 

When ever money comes around. A friend of my tuner just purchased his own dyno, and I believe it was delivered last week. He said I could get some super cheap dyno time on it once it's setup and calibrated, but I won't be able to directly compare the numbers to my previous dyno charts.

I've dyno'd on 3 dyno's so far. The closest one to me is a very reputable shop, and highly skilled tuner, but he always hates on the F-series when I go down there, and I KNOW his dynojet reads low despite what he claims. There's no way I was running 15.7's @ 146whp with a 3150lb car (from his dynojet) when every other 6th gen accord was running 15.8's and 15.9's with 155-160whp on other dynos. I made 171 on his dyno the last time I went down there, and he STILL hates on the F. I just need to get some time in at the track to shut him up.

 

AFAccord... hey, the club is in the house. F-series junkies we are!

155whp/wtq here on an F23a4 ULEV tune on AEM EMS. Jason, did I mention I was rebuilding my old F23a1 AGAIN?! This time, head work and cam. 3rd. x's Charm... more later.

BTW: F23's rock!

 

Yeah man, I figured with all the info you were asking about the tranny and stuff, something was moving. Who's doing your head work, and what cam are you going with?

 

Search the site. Thats where I found it, how ever many years ago.

FYI to all - I mainly started this thread as a friendly argument between me and a friend who had modded his H22. Headwork, cams, valvetrain, etc. But wasn't even breaking 170whp. I told him that if I'd done the same work I could probably match and/or beat his numbers.

From there we both had friendly wager to 200whp. How far he's gotten, I'm not sure, I dont talk to him anymore and I havent made much progress as other things have come up in my life that were more important but I'm continuing to find the path to atleast 200whp and matching tq.

 

Maybe the F23 won't win the max HP #'s but an NA F23 with 200-210 whp under 7K and almost 200lb/ft tq would beat up on most all out H22's assuming the same gearing was used.