A B18c or B18C5 isnt that bad in price unless you bought it from the same place Apex i ITR bought his.Then you bend a few valves.HAHA. Just kiddin H.

 

I love the EFS too,but if your looking for something a little bit nicer, go with a newer bodied car. I have owned 3 EFS ....a hatch,a crx & a 4 door ...the two that were race cars had alot of chassis upgrades and are fine .
But my poor 4 door had nothing but problems- the rear crossmemeber, the front crossmember - both of them cracked. Ive had problems with the radius arms and with the suspension componenets (bushings - ball joints etc) All because those chassis are just getting to old .
6 Months ago i bought A 92 si with a gsr already in it. I ABSOLUTELY ADORE THIS CAR !!!!! I can not believe how wonderfully stock it runs. It does not feel all shakey like and EF when it has a swap &is an absolute joy to drive .
So i really would suggest a newer chassis . My favorite has now definately the EG .Its the best of both worlds the EK is too heavy for my taste ..anyway happy hunting ....

 

let's just agree that we all have big johnson's and move on with out lives.

both cars are great and they are both hondas so no need to quarrel. Its like asking, do you want to go fast or do you want to go really fast? There's not that much of difference between the overall performance aspect because you could technically put any motor in either car, add any turbo or nos or whatever to either car. It comes down to style, which body style can you see yourself driving, then go drive it.

-johnny

 

Honest to goodness truth, 12.96, and then fear and crying when the motor was no longer running very smoothly. Turns out to have been a loosened off rocker arm nut.

 

So is the debate done?

Here's some more thoughts:

Let's compare the cost of a swap into both the EF and EG.

Starting with the car itself. Barring killer deals you will find most good-bodies EFs for around $1,500 for basic models w/dual point PGMFI up to $4,500 for a nice Si hatch. The 1992-1993 hatches can be found in good bodied condition for $1,800 for the CX, VX, and DX up to $6,500 for a killer Si hatch.

Again, this is the norm for good bodied running cars, not that steal you got for $300 like I did for my 1992 CX (after selling out the fist-gen B16a it had ans stand-alone ECU that is).

So you got the car now.

Swap?

I have a B16A2 in my fiancee's 1992 Si hatch and while it's nice, my old B18C1 would eat it for breakfast.

Let's compare the B18C1 swap, shall we?

B18C1 full swap: name your price. Usually goes for $3,000-$4,000 depending on mileage.

1992 hatch?

You're done after adding an exhaust.

1988-1991 hatch?

HASport mounts: $400+

Harness convertor: $300-$400 from Place

Tranny? Convertor from HASport will be what, $300+ perhaps? Or you can sell the hydro tranny for like $700 and buy a cable tranny for maybe $450. You made some money back there, but cable trannies are so iffy you'd better keep that extra money to buy another one if yours goes out soon.

HASport shift linkage.

Axles will be a big ? too, right?

If you got a STD, DX, then you will need spindles from an Si/EX/LX EF, and you will need to either purchase the HAsport convertor harness and injector resistor box or be a wiring genius.

ECU? Unless you ran the Place OBD1 convertor, you will have a tough time getting the dual butterfly mechanism to run right with a P30 or PW0 ECU. You cannot chip any non-butterfly ECU to run them.

Distributor? Depending on if you're OBD1 or trying pre-OBD, you will need to find a first-gen B16a distributor. Good luck finding one! And then another one, and possibly another one, because they are notorious for being ****-boxes.

So which looks more appealing to you?

Again, looks asdie the EG still has hands down advantages and could even be cheaper too considering all of the extra labor, parts, etc. needed to properly locate a B18C1 into an EF.







[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 2:36 PM 6/7/2002]

 

good point.

 

Jeez man, try to convince me more that your car's better and THEN say we can all differ in opinions...?

I'm saying the Type R engine is more expensive because it IS more expensive. Hands down. If you got a cheap deal on your car that doesn't mean that everyone else can.

As far as swapping a B-series into an EF, fact is, I did it myself. I don't work for a shop. I did it in my garage with hand tools. So what's this about it being sooo much easier to do in an EG? Think about it. Hand tools, and when I bought the engine I didn't even know which end was the transmission. So don't pretend that putting a B-series into an EF is like building a ship in a bottle.

Another fact: You can't quote times at all, especially about how oh, your buddy with the same engine as you runs slower times in an EF. That's driver skill. Next, you go wayy off topic and start ragging on B16a's. Why? We're not talking about them. We're talking about EG vs EF. Don't get off topic. It really all comes down to what you like. Sure the EG isn't much heavier, and sure it looks nicer, but the EF has total sleeper appeal. I'm not ragging on EG's, they're my favourite (non-EF) style. But they're not god's gift to Hondas.

You still haven't given a single reason why EGs are so much easier than EFs to work with. Doing a one-time swap and having to add four wires (ooooh, four wires!) instead of one doesn't make much of a difference, especially when it's a one-time mod. Give some real reasons instead of going all over the place looking for reasons.

 

If you missed all the reasons then yet again someone is guilty of not reading the entire posts.

4 wires, really?

What about if you have a Dual Point model like so many Efs are?

Hmmm?

 

You write too much.. that would be like memorizing a textbook

So ONE EF has to do more wiring. That's a model choice not an inherent problem with EFs.

And I beg to differ on your prices... EFs are much, much cheaper in most areas than EGs. You pay popularity taxes for EGs. Even very crappy ones up here run for about $6000 (ie, requiring engine rebuild), whereas a very, very nice EF runs for $5000.

One more note on Type-R engine install pricing: ITR swap thread Tell me again how JDM B18C's are 'about the same price'....?

And now for the transmission issue... I've had no problems with my oh-so-prone-to-breakage-transmission. I don't know of any people personally that have had problems, except for a guy that broke his USDM Type R transmission when he was drag-racing his EG on slicks. And as for the distributor, again, I don't personally know of anyone that's had problems. But you're still off-topic saying that these distributors, etc are so much more prone to breakage... you're comparing apples to oranges, OBDI to OBD0.


[Modified by raene, 12:08 PM 6/7/2002]

 

I will not argue the point anymore. I have stated many reasons why the Eg is easier to work with when swapping motors, and others here agree that I have made some good points.

Why can't you just admit that the EG is easier to do swaps in? That was my main point.

And I totally stayed away from the looks argument too, so my points included no opinions.

If I were a first-time swapper, I would much rahter have an EG so I could just drop in any B-series swap just like stock with little or no wiring. No beating in the frame rail for the alternator, no notching the rear cross member for the mount to fit, etc.

I have made my points. All you can do is say "you're comparing apples to oranges" or whatever and you give no valid points.

I guess things are so much different here in GA where most of the Ef guys I know with swaps has had either a tranny problem, axles breaking, mounts breaking, and distributor failure, or any or all of them happen on their cars. Must be nice where you live!

Car for car, the EG is an easier platform to do an O.E type B-series swap and sus and brake swaps. This is a fact, not an opinion. If it bolts directly onto the Eg, it is easier. You have to buy or fabricate things to adapt a lot of upgrades onto the Ef style Civic.

Fact, not opinion.

BTW: about my own personal car, you opened up that can of worms by trying to slight my times and compare you boy's "cheaper" EF build-up to mine when you knew nothing about my car or how much I paid for any of the mods. Normal cases my B18C5 would have costed more, but I'm a patient person and I look for and find deals like my $300 EG you see on those pics, or my free B18C5 swap after selling off my B18C1. It was off topic, but you tried to argue against my car and times, so I rebutted.

My staement about 13.3 in a auto-X car was a testament of a simple EG build-up, that's all. I think that the same set-up would be nice in an EF, but very difficult to duplicate and traction due to the sus pension geometry on the Ef would not allow as much traction nor the same handling characteristics.

I will find my pals with Efs to post on this thread - truth from experience is worth more than anything, right?




[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 4:03 PM 6/7/2002]

 

EG and EK's love 5-lug

 

I'm not slighting your times or your car. Your car is sweet! I'm just saying that not everyone can do what you've done for anywhere near the price you've got it for, and EFs aren't nearly as hard to work on - or as unreliable - as you're making them out to be. That's all.

I'm waiting for someone to post that 'arguing on the internet...' picture

And now, really, I'm not posting on this thread anymore... :shakes head: If you want to continue this discussion let's take it to IM instead of a public forum, since you wanna bring yo' boyz into it and slam me or something...

 

Oh come on now my friend, I wasn't trying to "rip on you y0!" or anything. I was getting a few of my pals with EFs to simply post up their experiences with their EFs, not to "slam you" or anything.



Oh, and you have IM raene.


[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 4:49 PM 6/7/2002]

 

i think b18c5 is converting me at the momment... im begining to love EG's now X= hahahah hey b18 if you get a chance IM me at BeeSicsTeenBRIAN on AOL or AIM

 

here's my .02 cents

i used to own a '89 crx si w/ a b16a motor in it. love it at first untill i totalled it.

afterwards, i wanted to buy another crx, but lighter.

after doing more research i choose to get a '92-'95 civic h/b.

why?

cause i know everything i had to with my old car was nothing but custom work.
from the motor mount to stock "r" rear sway bar to bolt'em stock type-r seats.
hell, my distributor only last me a few months and had the toughest time to locate one. tranny rebuild and locating parts was a problem as well. plus buying brand new parts from honda are getting rare to get. (trust me on this, i work in parts @ a local dealership.) to do a clutch on EF, you basically remove most of the engine out. on a EJ/EH it just drop and play. hell, it took me and a buddy to remove my transmission in 25 mins. <<<can you to that on a EF.


i didn't to do it for just a faster car or weitht but for more of a convience or easy-to-access parts.

the EK was a different story. i didn't like the rear/backend of the hatch.
as well the interior dash, wasn't my cup of tea somehow, even to this date.

yes, i did miss my crx and maybe someday buy one, but from experience, i have to do it all over again, i would rather go with a another EG/EH.

not that i'm lazy or anything, but it just less of headaches and ease, the end of results are worth doing for.

hell, just think about it for a second, imagine 25 years from now. hmm, i wondering what cars we'd be restoring.

 

When did this thread turn in to a EF vs EG/EH ?

Btw, as far as dashes are concerned, I think the EG/EH dash does not look any better then EF or even EK.

 

there is no love for the EK.

i love my EK, its the 6th gen chassis and honda engineering shines through on this chassis design. i guess you have to own one to understand.


[Modified by RR98DX, 4:33 AM 6/9/2002]

 

Because someone mentioned he was torn between EF and EK. EH folks were wondering why he hadn't considered our favorite rides. That still hasn't been answered that I can tell.

Shawn

 

...And if you will notice I tried to be completely fair and I didn't even voice my strong opinion on the 1992-1995 Civics in terms of ergonomics, looks, confort, etc.

I cannot tell you to buy one because I think it's the best looking Civic ever. You have to make that choice for you, not me.

I simply told you all what makes the 1992-1995 Civic even easier to work with than the EF.

There are many advantages the 1992-1995 Civic has over even the 1996-up Civics too.

Shall I list those?

 

I'm in the same boat. I have 2 crxs now, and have had all of the other EFs, 4dr, 2 hatches 2 crxs previous...

I just bought an EK and I really like it.. roomy and potential.
not for a b but for an H engine

for the same price as a b18c5 motor, you could get a jdm type s w/lsd (I've seen as low as 2500 on some websites) plus the motor mount kit, and you have a nice, 220hp LSD vtec motor that with the extra torque an H motor provides, who cares about the extra 300 lbs difference between the 5th gen and 6th gens..

there are few people on here that have done it and have all said high 12s, low 13s daily driven, full interior

b-series great for 2000-2200 lbs cars, H series is the way to go if you drive the EK

I'm putting my 89 crx si/b16a up for sale on tuesday, and hopefully some 'high school' kid will wanna buy it and wanna be 'fast and furious'

good luck

 

What do you have done to the CRX, and how much are you asking for it?

jB

 

you live pretty far away..
89 crx si , 91 rear tails, 16a, gsr cams, dc 4-1 header, air filter intake, ys1 tranny, 12lb chromoly flywheel, act HD street, chipped mugen ecu, hasport mounts, 10.5 inch teg front brakes, rear discs added, tokico blues, cut springs, ingalls camber kit, the car is 1.5" off the ground, I'm getting a skid plate made for the headers and the wheels are straight, over 10k miles on tires and even wear, right side rear exhaust, perfect seats, short shifter, leather wrapped center armrest, all interior, honda cd player, power windows, 4 dr handles in door (no key hole), alarm system. hidden kill switch, strut bars front,rear,lower rear, when the alarm is armed, there is NO WAY you will be able to open the doors, inside or out, theives have to crawl thru the window if they want to. if this car gets stolen, its cuz you opened your mouth about the security system. its yellow. pretty straight, no wrecks, clean title, soon to be window tinted, the wheel tire combination is up in the air right now, I have chrome 16s and a pair of 15s w/drag radials. Its a nice car, very reliable, oil changed with synthetic, only 8k miles on it so far, I even have a 'buddy club' (I think) fiberglass front bumper for it. I just bought a 96 hatch so I dont need this car anymore. I'll take pics of it later today. or send them to you in email. prefer local to Las Vegas, Nv. or will drive half way up to 150 miles or so, depending on offers and time available.

I figure you can find a stock rex for 2500, a nice one for 3500-4000 and still stock. this one isnt stock, and its nice and would like 5500 firm. again, its yellow . I need money for b20z (piston/rods/block building) and h22 type s swaps
please leave email to me if interested.

bigblockcrx@lvcm.com

 

Ok, let us get some things correct. I used to own a 90 si hb with gsr swap and Jr. I sold it for my new 00cx hb. I love the EF, but I just got tired of fighting the old car blues. Old tie rods, ball joints, etc.

HCP mount kit with shift linkage = 400 shipped
Hasport mount kit and linkage = 500
Wiring harness for 300-400?? The wiring from a SI model are only a few wires, and the DX-to-si conversion I do all day long for 125.00. Why would you spend 300-400 on the wiring?

Most cable Bseries cable trannies are going for 300 or so. Some of them grind, but even hydro trans grind too.

You can use the GSR axles. Or you can just get some 90-93 integra axles.

You do not need new spindles for the DX model! If you have the standard then you will need new spindles. The dx-to-si conversion harness I covered above. The resistor box I see all the time for 35 bucks. You can just keep all the OBD1/OBD2 electronics, run a conversion harness for 150 and call it a day.

But atleast you did get the part right about the OBDO distributors are crap.

Just clearing up a few things.

 

besides being lighter...they have NO advantages.

 

Actually the 1992-1995 Civic does have some advantages over the 1996-up Civic.

1. Price. No argument that if you want a cheaper platform to build upon the "EG" is cheaper to start with. Good-bodies CX, DX, and VX hatches can be found for $1,800-$2,500 if you look hard enough. This is a normal price here in Georgia. The "EK" goes for more than this. About the cheapest I've seen the average "EK" is $4,500 for the 1996 hatch. $2,000+ is a big difference.

2. Aftermarket support. Again it's hard to compete with the "EG" in this category. While there are tons of "EK" parts, there are still more choices for the "EG" and probably always will be.

3. Customization when swapping. Probably one of the bigger advantages in favor for the "EG." Let me explain. Like I've already said the "EG" swaps are basically bolt right in, plug and play with the exception of a few wires. Not so with the "EK" hatch. As you know the hatch is only in CX/DX trim and has a wiring harness that goes straight from the engine through the firewall to the ECU. When swapping this adds to headaches when trying to choose which wiring harness to use. Use the CX/DX and add all of the appropriate wiring or try to track down all of the EX wiring harness stuff? Tough call. It makes doing the swap yourself much harder in an "EK" Civic.

Exhausts will always have to be modded too, and it is sort of a big deal if you have a $500+ system and now you've had to cut it and introduce the possibility of rust. Only B-series swap that makes you cut the exhaust on an "EG" is the GS-R swap, and even that can be avoided with the right header/cat combo.

Also since the 1996-up Civic is OBD2 you have to either run that crap or spend more money to convert it to OBD1 like so many do. To run the ever-popular re-chipped P28 in a 1992-1995 Civic simply plug and play. Not so with the "EK."

4. The "EG" is lighter. Not much, but it still is. A 1992 CX hatch weighs 2080lbs. acording to the Honda Civic brochure in 1992. I have seen many "EK" Civics (hatches)weigh in at 2200lbs. even with the stock D16 motors in them. 120lbs. isn't a ton of weight, but it is an advantage.

Theses are some things that the "EG" and "EK" differ on and although the "EK" is a tad more difficult to swap in, it's still easy and people do it all the time.

I was just pointing out some advantages for the 1992-1995 Civic or "EG" as it's often called. These things can factor into a person's decision, and overall the "EG" is still a no-brainer for swaps while the other choices are more difficult. Still easy no doubt, but still a tad harder and even more expensive in the case of the "EK" Civics.

Again looks are totally subjective, and I love the "EK" Civics and still the "EF" Civics too.

I will say this and it is more fact than opinion:

It's harder to get the interior of the "EK" to look coordinated because they never had black dashes. A lot of the really nice seats like stock ITR seats and others are totally black. I've seen ITR seats in the "EK" and while it looks good, the light grey dash and carpet make the seats look out of place. If you want black interior then you will have to spend some money and/or be crative I guess.

...But not all dig black interiors I suppose, but like I said there's more aftermarket, O.E Honda, and JDM Honda stuff in black than there is the matching light grey for the "EK" interior.

One last thing that I have noticed, and my friend with both an "EG" and an "EK" (traded his swapped "EF" for a stock "EK") has told me too:

The sitting position in the "EK" is awkward when compared to the "EG" and even the "EF" Civics. He says when he gets into his "EK" after having driven the "EG" it feels like a big truck or a school bus. He says the seats sit too high, and they are really flat with no support at all.

That's an "EK" owner talking, not me.



Again, not hating on anyone or his/her car choice, but just telling once again that the "EG" overall is an easier car to work with. I'm also not trying to convince any of you to buy an "EG" over any other car, but when I see a discussion on comparing pros and cons for each car and the 1992-1995 isn't even mentioned, I have to jump in.






[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 7:53 AM 6/10/2002]