Seeing that it's the off season for most of you avid racers and winter has arrived for us folks in the north I was wondering if you people could start up some info on good driving techniques in the snow. Also, some helpful hints on how to try and correct errors that may unfortunately result in an accident. Ex: How to correct MASSIVE understeer in a corner in snowy conditions with a FWD vehicle?

I tend to use engine braking alot more when the roads are covered in the white stuff.

Thanks,

 

Engine braking is good simply because the tires tend to always be turning, otherwise, driving in the snow is just like driving any other time. You are limited by the friction between the tires and the road, etc.

If you have massive understeer when heading into a turn, it's just like driving in the dry, you went into the turn TOO FAST. You have a few choices what to do.

1) Screw it, no point in steering now.
2) Straighten the wheel and try to brake/slow enough that the car will turn (just like racing).
3) (Not advised, but I was known to do it in my youth), Yank the parking brake, get the car rotated (you will have no control over how far it rotates) and apply liberal throttle to try to make the turn. Typically, all this does is result in going tail first into an obstacle rather than head first.

If you find the car is sliding everywhere, then slow down or get better tires/chains.

Scott

 

Ditto on the handbrake thing. Especially good for ice racing, where hitting the snowbank sideways is usually good enough to keep you "on-track", while plowing headfirst into it might end your race.

There is no replacement for Slow in, Fast out, especially in the snow. Tossing it sideways doesn't usually scrub much speed.

Check out:

[url=http://www.iceracingthunderbay.com/Images/racingpic5.jpg]


That's me in the 'vette.


[Modified by Jon Nelson, 4:38 PM 12/3/2002]


[Modified by Jon Nelson, 4:39 PM 12/3/2002]


[Modified by Jon Nelson, 4:39 PM 12/3/2002]


[Modified by Jon Nelson, 4:40 PM 12/3/2002]

 

Now that looks like fun!!

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I am one of the few people who actually enjoys driving around town in the snow. It's the highway I'm a little weary of.

I've had some nasty experiences with drifts. Any input on what to do in a situation like that. ex. Driving within the limits on dry/semi-wet roads to come over a hill to see drifts covering the roads approx. 4-6" deep. The only thing you see is the two tracks. What do ya do???

Stock

 

Note that if the car doesn't already have some rotational momentum established - if it isn't already turning - all locking up the rears will do is make all of the tires gripless...

Kirk

 

Yeah, that's right, you need to watch out for that.... in theory, but in most cases the only hope you'll have is the E-brake.

We are dealing with VERY low friction levels. Low enough that throttle off oversteer doesn't exist. Throttle off understeer instead. No weight transfer.

One other fine peice of advice is, if you are hopelessly understeering off the road (or into a curb, a parked car, an orphanage, whatever), don't forget to get your front wheels to do nothing but turn. That means foot on the clutch, foot off the brakes, get them to turn only. If you have a fine enough touch, feathering the throttle so that the engine is not exerting any force on the tires, or JUST a little bit of drive, is good, but best to disconnect the engine from the wheels until the trouble is over. Resist the temptation to brake.

There's no real single technique that will cover all eventualities when it comes to winter driving, all you can do is practice, and keep the speed down.

I enjoy it, too. My ice racer is a Pontiac Acadian (but a Chevette by any other name is still a Chevette), it has 375lbs of lead in the rear to make the weight distribution more favourable for traction, and it is actually pretty well balanced. I HAVE beaten a number of Honda's in this car!! Where else can you find a $500.00 race car that'll spin the tires all the way down the front straight!??

j n

 

buy a subaru

 

Or better yet, a 323GTX. The ultimate winter beater. I don't care to spend 30K on a car that will see use in the salt.

J

 

Also important: super slow and gentle inputs. Just like racing, smoothness counts. No steering yanks or brake jabs when turning or slowing.

Another suggestion, to find out how much traction there really is, is to goose the gas when accelerating, in a straight line, so you'll know how much grip there is when its time to turn or stop.

That said, I have used the handbrake move quite successfully when plowing towards a fixed object in winter muck. The keys are having some amount of turning established, and not holding the hand brake up for that long.

Also, winter tires on all four corners are highly recommended. I prefer my front-drive Celica on 4 snows to the wifey's awd Exploder in snow and ice.

 

Snow tires are the best thing you can do. I don't know why anyone bothers with all season tires anymore; one should have a summer and winter set.

 

Just as in performance driving or racing its all about the momentum Knowing when to have and when to get rid of it.

Turns: slower in slow out
Acceleration: perfect time to practice throttle modulation
Hills: momentum is key
Braking: practice threshhold braking and do it alot sooner

Night time is a great time to go out and practice snow driving
Only idiots like me go out then
When the snow starts falling tommorow I will head towards Leesburg(where they don't plow as effectivally as they do in Fairfax) to see how well my truck does in the snow with bald tires

 

You won't be the only idiot out there tonight... One must go out and test one's new winter tires. (With the "snowflake-on-the-mountain" symbol.)

 

?
a used legacy is easier to find, reliable, and can be had for a lot cheaper than an unreliable and expensive to fix GTX. (dont get me wrong id love to have one)

Evan
-dreams of 4wd snow drifts dancing through my head

 

I was looking at grabbing a GTX a few months ago. In the local autotrader there was one listed for 3k and another for 15k! Unbelievable! They were 20k new (Canadian)!

I ditto what most people said. If you get into trouble the first instinct should be to clutch in, or pop it in neutral. One of the features almost all automatics have is that if you push straight up without pushing the button it'll go from D to N but no further. So just slam it.

The handbrake is good, but requires lots of practice (whee!) in an empty parking lot. It helps a lot to be in touch with what the conditions are at that exact time. I like the technique in a FWD car of goosing it to see what traction is like. It's a little scary in a RWD car or even in 4WD because you pick up so much speed. Alternatively you can tap the brakes, just make sure that no one is too close behind you. They might think you're a little psychotic breaking every minute or so, but whatever...

One time when I was driving from up north there were some very icy conditions. They salted sections of the highway at a time, but because it was just ice you couldn't tell the difference between what was salted and not. I was doing about 140 km/h because the roads were totally fine on the section I was driving. A little damp maybe. A few kms later I saw a car driving in the left lane a little bit slower than me. I lightly brushed the brakes and my ABS started kicking in like crazy! Needless to say I clutched in and coasted back down to 100 (62 mph). Scary stuff if you don't know what's going on under there...

ABS sucks in the snow. The only time I feel comfortable enough to use it is when I'm using some very good snow tires. Otherwise it increases stopping distances in a bad way. On snow the quickest way to stop is to lock all four. You have no say on the direction of the car though. So the best technique is to lock them up, point the wheel where you want to go, then when you've slowed down enough for the tires to have traction then let go of the brakes. The car will just grip and avoid the obstacle.

edit: I don't like engine braking. It's very possible cause of massive understeer mid corner. It's also harder to modulate than the brakes (you've got 5 levels of braking instead of being infinitely adjustable), and it doesn't involve the rears. The rears play a larger role in winter driving than dry because there is very little weight transfer.


[Modified by B18C5, 10:09 AM 12/4/2002]

 

I was thinking about driving in the snow if anything wrong please correct. When the rear of a FF car lose traction in turn before the front, the car will rotate and cause oversteer. So when I apply throttle to get the front lose traction, all four wheel should lose traction and going sideway. I try that in the snow and one thing I notice is eventhough I have control on rotation by throttle control but I'm not slowing down by sliding 40mph unless my car is rotate over 90 degree. After turning the steering wheel to where I want to go then work on gas to regain traction, the car will go where I pointed with the car's rear sliding. Please go easy on me . This is my first post on honda-tech and I'm just sharing personal experience.


[Modified by leuny98, 7:53 PM 12/4/2002]