I have a small problem with getting the car to turn in a few spots at the track. Its good, but i know with small fine tuning on the current stuff i can be faster.
current setup
1995 delsol VTEC. 2480LBS (start of race weight)
yanaco? coilovers. 550LBS springs front and 600LBS rear.
24MM stock front bar and 19MM stock rear bar.
Theres a few corners that the front rolls over and i think bottoms out. The car turns in really well. Starts to rotate the rear then pushes the front out. I know we need a larger rear bar, and some proper shocks. I have 2 650LBS springs i can swap in for this weekend but am not sure wear i should put them. In the front to stop it from rolling so much. leaving the 600LBS springs in the rear. or put the 600LBS springs in the front and the 650LBS springs in the rear. The first setup puts a extra 100LBS or spring up front and leaves the rear alone. The track is Atlantic motorsports park in nova scotia and has a lot of off camber corners and is a bit wrough. I dont want to rear to get to lose, but i need the front to stop rolling as much as it does now. So know i am thinking ill put the 650LBS up front and leave the rear alone.

Any help would be great as i am working on the racecar tonight and only need to swap springs, recorner balance and do a alingment for this weekends event.

 

What tires are you using? Assuming your pressures are okay and these are race tires..

Even though it goes against your balance issue, you want to get your front end working better and if you are complaining about roll I would put the springs up front to try out. If you find out that they are really a terrible choice then you could always disconnect the front swaybar to shift your balance... but once again you're get that front end roll and lose response...

 

We run the goodyear eagle DOT slick 225/45/15, its makes the problem the most noticable i find. Tire presures are abround 34f 36r. I was thinking about bumping the presures up front and rear to 36f and 38r for qualifing to see how it works. We only have 1 race left in the goodyears and i might qualify on the BFG R1 tires we have. But there only a 205/50/15. And can you ever notice the size difference. Theres almost 2 seconds in the difference. i did a 1:17.95 on the goodyears and the fastest ive done on the R1s is a 1:19.60. But we run close to the same presures in both tires.
Tire temps are within 10degrees F after the cooldown lap and tires wear is very even.

When we run the toyo R888s we dont really have any problems. Other then just being slower. I can get the car to turn better but still needs help.

 

What I've typically found is that, the more tire grip you toss at a FWD'er, the pushier it gets. At your DOT slick grip level, I'd go with the 650# front springs and then do a pretty big rear pressure bump (~5-7psi over where you are now and then 2psi increments higher/lower if needed). I wouldn't remove the front bar... yes, it'll give you (relatively) more grip right up until you hit the bumpstops.

What sort of front ride height are you at? Also, how much shock travel do you have before getting into the bumpstops?

 

car sits at 5 3/4 inch to the jack point, with the 225/50/15 toyos on it, little less with the 225/45/15. and only have about 3inch travel i think. I will put them on the front as you guys sugested and then try controling the rear with tire presures.

My goal this year was to set a new FWD record at the track. Curently held by the guy who built the car. His lap time is a 1:17.24 in a light weight 88 CRX. i think it weight 2000LBS with about 140WHP. The del sol weights 2480LBS and is rated at 170HP but really might make 140-150 at the wheels. Header/exhaust, intake, and fuel presure bump. runs about 12.3 on the wideband at WOT. But other then that its a stock B17A1 (93 GSR motor). Was hoping to set the record at the current wieght and remove 200LBS over the winter and reset it next spring. But with how the car feels now, not sure i can get that last .7 of a second off. Hoping the suspention change will help.

 

Alright. so i just pulled the front spring and found they are 450LBS not 550LBS. now i am not sure what to do. 450 to 650 is a big change. Also the rear bar is a 22MM. lol. i am more lost then the car. lol.

 

^ well what are the rears then? maybe swap the rears to the front and the 650s to the back.

 

The rears were 600LBS. I could see the numbers on them but when i looked at the front i thought it was 550LBS, but they were 450LBS. i put the 650LBS on the rear and am just about to install the fronts back on now. Only weird thing is the 600lbs and 450LBS are a 2.5inch spring and my 650LBS are a 60MM spring. The 60MM springs fit properly and the 2.5inch springs dont fit over the sleeve. lol. No a big deal but good to remember.

 

1. What do you mean by the "suspension rolls over"? The tire is rolling over? You are getting more body roll than you would like?

2. The suspension is either bottoming out or it is not. If you don't know for sure then stop guessing and find out. All it takes is a zip tie on the shock shaft and you will know for sure.

 

time for new springs and new dampers and more rear bar. 450, 550 or whatever your running up front is too soft for a full slick.
also, whats your alignment settings? they won't be the same from toyos to full slicks.

 

These are the coilovers on the car. Anyone have any info on them thats usefull? I was wondering if we could rebuild them or revalve them for the track we run. Guy up here can do it all and has a shock dyno but unsure if these are even worth working with.

http://www.yonaka.com/Suspension_Hon..._p/ymtc001.htm

And yes the suspention did bottom out. I think i fixed that by setting the pre-load highter and the freeing up the hight adjustment to adjust from there. lol. Shocks have been seized for a long time. Also took the 450LBS springs off and put the 600LBS springs on. So we shouldnt bottom out anymore.

Alignment wise it has a 1/16 total front toe and 0 rear toe. I dont remember camber but tires all wear flat and have a 10Degree F diference from inner edge to outer edge. Inner being hotter. Same on all tires. Goodyears, BFGs and toyos. I wouldnt call them a full slick as everything we run is a DOT tire. Goodyear eagle RS roadcourse, BFG R1, and toyo R888/RA-1s.

Sunday will be the test, the track is bumpy and old. Built in the early 70s. First race was 74. Never had a full repave but has been repaved fully over the years. Ill try and get some video up next week of the races and the track.
Thanks for the help.

 

I would be curious too. If you are hitting the bump stops that could be an issue.

 

At your current ride height and with the new springs, you're probably still going to get into the bumpstops *some* if you hit a bump midcorner but it shouldn't be the same issue you've been having previously where the car got down onto them right off the bat and then got pushy.

Your new setup is much closer to what I'd consider "right" but I'd add either more rear spring and more rear bar or a ****-ton more rear bar with the current springs.

 

I'm running far more spring than you about 900lbs Front/rear got about 2 inches of travel and it doesnt bottom. So from my limited experince i think that you are correct as everyone else has pointed with Adding Spring up Front. If it was me running that bumpy track i'd leave rear springs as it is (on the soft side for slicks) and add more Bar.

 

I am going to guess i wont bottom out anymore. Went from 2 inchs of travel up to 3.5 inchs. and put the 600s in. so theres a extra 150lbs of spring a 1.5 inchs more travel. If we still want the car to turn better we might go to a 700LBS spring in the rear but a larger bar would be best. Somthing we can adjust as well come we weather.

After this weekend i want to pull all the shocks of again and try and clean the treads so there easly adjusted.

Tonight i am going to reset the ride height and corner balance/ align the car. With the stiffer spring should i set the camber the same or add/remove camber? I was planing on leaving it as we had it and figure out this weekend if we need to adjust it, but figured i would atleast ask.

I cant see us being able to run much more spring on the car as it will unsettle it to much in a few corners. We have very little run off in the spots were it would get lose and I would like to keep my crash record at 0 for a little longer if i can.
Ill do my best to get some video up monday give everyone a idea on the track.

 

With the additional spring rate, you should be able to run a (relatively) lower ride height without getting into the bumpstops. I'd have thought you'd be ok at your prior ride height of around 5.5-5.75" to the rocker.

 

The ride height was good, but the header was hitting going into pit lane. I was only going to raise it 1/4inch. The main reason we were bottoming the shock out was because the ride height was set with the pre-load not the height adjustment. it was seized. i freed it and Now i can control ride height with the height setting and the springs are not pre-loaded but the adjustment is holding them at full travel off the car. After this weekend i will do the same to the rear so they work right.

 

Corner balance done. We are close to good. Here is were the car started.
LF 862 RF 758
LR 513 RR 454 TW 2587. driver in 1/2 full.
Me and the car need a diet. if i can lose 20 and the car 100 id be happy. The trunk lid alone must be over 50LBS.
anyway, too the alignment rack now.

 

Well the LR shock lasted a hole 5 laps. Paul was driving, and said it felt fine. The drips on the ground start about 10 feet from the pit stall. lol. It blew parking the car. It was the worst one anyway. I just tossed a old Skunk2 sport2 shock on for the day. The car worked great all day sunday. Found out The BFG tires are crap. They are from 2008 and we have no idea how they were treaded/stored before us. So we are trying to burn them off. its funny because the car would slide after the bumps into turn 9 only on the BFG R1 tires. Didnt on the goodyears or the toyos. Might be the fact that there 205 not 225 like the rest. Anyway it was way to hot to turn any real fast times. But the car does turn in much better.

We are looking at the KONI 8041-1152 1153 shocks for the next set-up. Are they that much better then stock Koni yellows? I belive both are rebuildable, But whats the max Spring the yellow can handle? And does anyone know the sleave part number for them?