So I found a miata for $1800... Its pretty tempting.. $6k I can have a mid/stragler but at least it could be sold for $8k plus... Then eventually throw in the new motor and go mid-front...

Car is in great shape with 50k on it...

Whats the consensus?

I know i will never own spec miata... and im not sure if i would be satisfied with being a rear runna!

 

Baa-aa-aaaah. <- Noise of sheep following other sheep.

K

 

It is expensive. On many occasions, it also gets relatively quite rough and protests will be flying around after (or even before) races.

Personally, I would consider doing a SM only if I had the equivalent racing budget of running a winning ITS car, or 2 winning ITB cars. If you are in such a position, it’s definitely a good and competitive class to race in. Otherwise I would not put in the effort, time and money in SM.

Bottom line: if you can afford it, then do it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is expensive. On many occasions, it also gets relatively quite rough and protests will be flying around after (or even before) races.

Personally, I would consider doing a SM only if I had the equivalent racing budget of running a winning ITS car, or 2 winning ITB cars. If you are in such a position, itÂ’s definitely a good and competitive class to race in. Otherwise I would not put in the effort, time and money in SM.

Bottom line: if you can afford it, then do it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

argh.. def not the case... *****...

 

If you just want to get out there and race, go for it. If you want to win trophies though, you may want to think twice...

Don't take this the wrong way, I personally just wanted to get out there when I built my Civic, and it was worth it. It IS fun just to be out there, as long as you have someone to race with.

 

If you have access to cheap body work too.
Talked to Mike Cottrel at Sentry a while back, and he had banged up SM's piled up like cordwood. 1 of them he fixed just before the ARRC, and they guy hadn't even paid him for *that* work and it was back all banged up again.
I realize that isn't indicative of EVERY specmeeotter race, but it sure made for an interesting conversation with him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have access to cheap body work too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

</TD></TR></TABLE>

WHOARRY KRAP! that's a lot of PRELOAD on those springs!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WHOARRY KRAP! that's a lot of PRELOAD on those springs!</TD></TR></TABLE>

they're F-ing linear

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Baa-aa-aaaah. &lt;- Noise of sheep following other sheep.

K </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats so true. I hate Miatas they sound like crap, and every one know what you have and dont have under the hood.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



</TD></TR></TABLE>

looks like the saturn likes its bum chum... RJ, you wouldnt know anything about that, would you?

 

lol, you guys are too funny.

anyway, my .02 is that spec miata is simply the cheapest sedan racing available right now. in my region, if you have a SM, you can run in 3 different classes for the weekend. split that up between 3 mutual friends, and things become real cheap. build up is cheap too. ive been talkin to some guys who have done the same thing and they say getting a cage done is less than $1000, even in california, since there are so many miata's being built cage builders have jigs all set up for quick cages (and not necesarily shoddy, or not crashworthy just because you didnt spend a lot of money in it) sure, to be up front you gotta be a great driver and spend lots of time (time is money) preparing the car and engine properly, but thats given. with so many other drivers of different levels, there will always be a race for you, even if its not for podium, its still a race for position. for value factor, SM is where its at, catch it while its hot.

 

Depends on your region, Here in the NW, We expect 30 plus spec Miatas at the April SCCA race. The Miatas will probably get there own run group! Its the most competitive racing for the buck. Looks like being the sheep is the most fun!!

Buy car for cheep, invest $4500 to $5000, and sell high!
Cars are selling between $12,000 to $15,000 in good shape.

 

Depends on what you're after.

Plusses:
- Low maintenance
- RWD
- Lots of competition
- Availability of parts & shells
- Great Pro events
- Easy on consumables (tires, brakes, etc.)
- Low entry cost for mid-pack car
- Plenty of places to race (NASA & SCCA)

Minuses
- Not a car/class for someone looking for easy wins
- Over $10K for a competitive car
- Can be a little rough at the Pro level

I've been fortunate to have driven a wide variety of race cars over the years, and I'm having a blast in the Miata. In two years of racing at the Pro level (about 15 races), I've had bodywork done only twice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WebbRacing.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Depends on what you're after.

Plusses:
- Low maintenance
- RWD
- Lots of competition
- Availability of parts & shells
- Great Pro events
- Easy on consumables (tires, brakes, etc.)
- Low entry cost for mid-pack car
- Plenty of places to race (NASA & SCCA)

Minuses
- Not a car/class for someone looking for easy wins
- Over $10K for a competitive car
- Can be a little rough at the Pro level

I've been fortunate to have driven a wide variety of race cars over the years, and I'm having a blast in the Miata. In two years of racing at the Pro level (about 15 races), I've had bodywork done only twice. </TD></TR></TABLE>

10k? Sheet in the Southeast you are looking 25-35k to be at the front

 

I drove one in an enduro for two hours and though driving in the enduro was great fun, driving the SM was just okay. I wasn't enamored with it. It was alright. And now the price to be competitive just makes it even less appealing.



&lt;== still doesn't know why SM's, or Miatas in general, are so popular.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ponyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
&lt;== still doesn't know why SM's, or Miatas in general, are so popular.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WebbRacing.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plusses:
- Low maintenance
- RWD
- Lots of competition
- Availability of parts & shells
- Great Pro events
- Easy on consumables (tires, brakes, etc.)
- Low entry cost for mid-pack car
- Plenty of places to race (NASA & SCCA)</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ponyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
&lt;== still doesn't know why SM's, or Miatas in general, are so popular.</TD></TR></TABLE>

because you can build one for less than 7 grand.
because no matter how crappy of a car you have you still have people to race with.
because no matter how crappy of a driver you are you still have people to race with.
because 1 set of tires can last an entire season
because they're R(ight)WD
because you can run multiple races on the same weekend
because mazda is very supportive of the class
because the motor is almost unblowupable
because there is less cheating
because meeotter people are sweet

i don't regret for 1 second going SM instead of another class.

 

Hehe...I knew that would yank a few people's chain. Still think it's "just alright."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... because there is less cheating ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bwah-hah-hahhahah! TOO funny. Try this...

Hey, [name of someone with a Sunbelt or other "pro-built" engine] - since all of our parts are the same, I'll provide all of the labor and we can trade cam pulleys. Whaddaya say?

If it's a cheat that a dork like ME knows about, it's a common one. I'd love to research the more clever ideas...

K

 

1) a sunbelt motor/any built "stock" motor is a part of ANY SS based class, thus this point is irrelevant..
2) read this http://www.specmiata.com/ubb/u...01824

 

So by "less cheating," you mean "as much cheating as in Showroom Stock?" Lots and lots, then...

I have nothing personal against Spec Miata: Like they say, "One of my best friends races one." I don't personally find them very enticing but it IS great that Mazda supports the series. It is great that large numbers mean depth and racing throughout the grid. It is great that the various sanctioning bodies are getting on the bandwagon and that the rules *appear* to be stabilizing nationwide. It is great that they are relatively hard to crash and equally hard to get the last 2% out of. All of these are good things.

I do however object to the mythology that gets dribbled on newbies who are interested. It does nobody any good - short of filling the grid with short-timers and putting used cars on the market when they quit - to suggest to these folks that SM is "cheaper" than any number of other classes. It is not.

The PERCEPTION that everyone is on an equal footing 'cause the badges are all the same IS an influence but I have experience in spec series and they do nothing to level out the playing field, simply by defining one make/model of car as eligible.

K

 

if our biggest/main problem is the sunbelt motor, i think we're doin pretty darn good. at least it's not a mystery where the power is coming from.

what are you basing the statement that SM is not cheaper than other alternatives statement on? i'm not saying it's the cheapest around, because i'm sure it's not. but it is pretty darn cheap.

also, what do you mean they do nothing to level out the playing field? did you know they put restrictor plates on the 1.8 motors and the 1.6 powered cars are now required to be heavier? also the modifications allowed for both motors is different. i guess i just don't understand what you mean by "they do nothing to level out the playing field." please explain.

 

Yeah, I could have been more clear on that...

Putting everyone in the same make/model of car takes one "composite" variable out of the equation - make/model actually being the sum of a number of mechanical and spec differences including drive layout, weight, displacement, brake swept area, Cd, frontal area, wheel diamter, etc. In that respect, the playing field is indeed "leveled," in that the range in lap time of the distribution from fastest to slowest (over the same number of cars in compared classes) is likely smaller.

This however does nothing to overcome the influences of other variables - driver skill, engineering talent, and money (among others). Since MONEY potentially buys skill (practice time) and engineering talent (paid help, consultant, or ready-to-use parts), it is a huge contributor. Further, since make/model is off of the table, the other variables play relatively more important roles in getting to the front.

The playing field is more level but smaller hills and bumps make a relatively greater difference.

Regarding the "cheapness" claim, I'm not singling you out for abuse here, Travis. It is a popular claim made by people prostletizing for the class and I think that it's unfair to leave it out there unchallenged. Heck, I see spec classes being touted all over the place, with the claim being that they are somehow magically less expensive than other classes - most recently on the NASA Rally board where someone suggested that a "Spec Evo 8" class would cost less than other AWD turbo options. Yeah, the hardware would initially cost less than a WRC car but if someone has a WRC budget, he's going to spend it.

There was a time when I bought into this fib because I really wanted it to be true. I learned - the $hard$ way that it is not.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This however does nothing to overcome the influences of other variables - driver skill, engineering talent, and money (among others). Since MONEY potentially buys skill (practice time) and engineering talent (paid help, consultant, or ready-to-use parts), it is a huge contributor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree, but.....this is a factor in every class, it doesn't increase the cost of SM relative to other classes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The playing field is more level but smaller hills and bumps make a relatively greater difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

kinda, sorta, but not really. yeah those little difference become more significant in SM than in other classes, but that's because there aren't any big differences to be made as there are in say IT. this doesn't change the fact that those little differences are still LITTLE DIFFERENCES and i don't think do much to alter lap times. hence why you will see the top 10 qualifiers in a race all within 1 second. now what happens, the guy in first place has 1 off, loses 5 seconds, and is now back down in 5th. whereas in some other groups, he would likely retain his position. hence i say there is more emphasis on driver and less on equipment in SM.

maybe over time i'll agree with you guys, but right now, i just don't.