I'm planning to get a set of Hoosiers to replace my Kohmos. I've noticed that they offer several different dot race tires. The R the A and even on with different tread pattern (3 bias plied?). So which will be a good one for autox in a civic? Whats the major different between R3S03 and A3S03? I know one is for AutoX and the other is roadrace.....

 

I think the R needs more time to heat up, whereas the A reaches its optimum grip at a lower temperature.

 

Not sure about this, but aren't some of the Hoosiers biads ply and other are radial? Like I said, not sure, just asking.

The A compound is WAY to soft for track use. It overheats and flatspots easily. It's not uncommon to see autocrossers cooling them between sessions (I've seen it on cars that are shared within the same session).

 

The primary difference is in compound. The A3S03 needs basically no time to reach "optimum" grip, where as the R3S03 needs time to reach a certain temperature range before providing a similar amount of grip. Of course, the road race compound will provide longer wear also.

There are some other considerations. Are you looking for ultimate autox performance, and aren't worried about expense? A3S03's may be for you, but expect to get *very* few events in them. Another thing to think about is weather. Your sig sez you're from NY, so I assume it's fairly cool up there, but being from TX myself I know it's all relative. ;-) It's been my experience that A3S03's start to give up pretty quick when the thermometer closes in on 90 degrees. Around here, the majority of our autox season is spent in temperatures in excess of 90 degrees. So, coupled with the fact that we have a couple of large sites (...long courses), I run the road race compound. So far, I'm happy with them, especially after the autox at TX Motor Speedway last weekend that reminded me of Solo 1 without the straightaways. ;-) 2 minute runs were the norm...

A possible compromise, recommended to me by a national champ autoxer, is to run the R3S03's in front and the A3S03's in back. Something to think about...

 

>>Not sure about this, but aren't some of the Hoosiers biads ply and other are radial? Like I said, not sure, just asking.<<

The bias ply's are a different line of tire, same rubber compound but different design. The bias ply versions are known as "Autocrossers" and "Street TD's". They are a very camber-friendly tire, have the worst turn-in I've ever felt, grip like mad, and have slip angles that are almost unbelievable. They're a fun tire to drive because they can be "worked" so hard. And once I got used to them I loved them, but boy do they take some getting used to! The turn-in is so bad you have to do everything several feet sooner than before. Turn...wait....wait...wait a little more...*GRIP*. ;-)

 

So, which is the tire to use for autocross, the A3 or the Autocrosser? I haven't used either, and probably won't any time soon, just wondering...


[Modified by Crack Monkey, 12:07 PM 7/2/2001]

 

yes, the auto-X is the a3.... The road race is the r3s03.

 

The "A3" is the "A"utocross compound, and the "R3" is the "R"oadrace compound. The R3S03 takes longer to heat up and may not be the first choice for autocross use unless your climate is hot. The Bias-ply "Autocrosser" is what it says. It's a autocross compound only.

Having driven on both, here's my $.02;
The bias-ply's are sticky right now and only get better as they're heated. Overheat them, and just like anything else, they'll get slippery. As someone else said, the turn-in takes some getting used to, but the grip is insane. They also like the avarage climate regions like ours in the spring and fall. The air pressure settings in a bias-ply are quite different from a radial tire. I currently am running these tires in a 225-45-13, and set pressures close to 23 front and 19 rear depending on weather.

The A3S03 takes slightly longer than the Bias-ply's to get heat in them, but once they're warm, they have great grip. Turn-in is quicker and they like a lot of negative camber. Air pressure is similar to a Kumho, 4x front, and 3x rear.

Both tires wear quickly and you may not get a full season out of them if you race a lot, but the extra grip is worth it.




[Modified by johng, 12:45 PM 7/2/2001]

 

Thanks everyone for the good reply. I live in NY so most of the event here will be under 90 degree. I guess the A3SO3 will suit my needs. And save my Kumho for track events. Any one here went from Kuhmo to Hoosier? Big different?

 

I've gone the other way (Hoosier to Kumho) and noticed a big difference. Hoosier simply grips better, period. Most everyone who's driven on both will agree.

HTH.

 

Kevin,

I wouldn't UNLESS you have a Quaife or other suitable LSD... Maybe you
do and I was just too caught up in the moment driving your car that one
time to notice!!! I say this because the Hoosiers may last you 4 or 5
events on that car, especially the way it understeers while applying the
throttle coming out of corners. That amount of scrubbing will wear
those tires down faster than you can say TireRack.

Your key is in suspension tuning. No tire short of a true slick will
help that monster put power down.

We'll talk more at Englishtown on Saturday if you'd like.

Sincerely,

Anthony "Mario" Crea

 

The hoosier A3s03's are great for autoxing, and take NO time whatsoever to warm up.. the r3s03 would probably warm up after your first run..

Here's the deal with Hoosier's - they are WONDERFUL at grip. Positively wonderful. What's the catch, you ask?
They are VERY expensive, and they wear out incredibly fast. I've heard M3 owners have corded a set of Hoosier's at 1 autox (4 runs plus a few fun runs). The Kumhos are cheaper, and will last you several autox runs (perhaps a whole season if you're driving right), but the sacrifice is in grip.
If you've got the $$, have at it - you'll definitely see the improvement. =]

 

I too am switching from Kumhos to Hoosiers. Hoosier Tom told me to go with the A compound. The only reason I am switching is because of limited Kumho availability in my size.

I ran Hoosiers last year for a few events back to back with Kumhos. Both my codriver and I turned almost identical times on both tires on asphalt. We never ran them on concrete but we expect that the grip will be better with the Hoosiers.

The Hoosiers turn in much better. Don't be surprised if you start whacking cones when you switch. Also the Hoosiers are MUCH MUCH easier to lockup. Even with my Type Rs ABS I locked the Hoosiers up slightly over surface irregularities. Not enough to flat spot but enough to chirp. I think without ABS you need to be very gentle on brake applications til you are used to them.

As far as longevity goes. I get 100-150 runs out of my Kumhos. I got 45 runs out of the Hoosiers.

Also with my car Tom recommended that I start at 55psi Front and 40psi Rear. This seems high to me but he is concerned about rollover with our limited neg camber.

 

Thanks for the inputs, very interesting. I'm running 225 45 15 in front and 205 50 15 in rear and the only tires that offer that size is either Hoosier or the new Kuhmo. Since the New Kuhmo is not available yet, So Hoosier is my only option...for now. I bought some used R3S03 from my friend before and just tried them out at the last autox event. I think the compound is getting old because the rubber is kind of hard when I rub it with my finger. However they still feel stickier than the kuhmo in general. But then again they are 225 compare to my old Kuhmo 205.

Tony, I'll talk to you this Saturday. The Hoosiers are just for fill in. As soon as the new Kuhmo are available, I'll switch back to them. I really can't afford to buy a new set of tires every four or five events. My last set of Kuhmo last more than a season and still runing .

 

Sorry to bring this back from the dead... but I'm thinking about buying some used A3S03's.... they have "about 10 heat cycles on them", you can still see the grooves. I know it's hard to say but can you guys give me a general idea of how many auto-x events I can reasonably expect to get out of these? My club runs about 6 runs each event, about 50sec. each run. About half of my runs are in the wet (stupid Washington rain).


Modified by White98LS at 3:54 AM 12/16/2003

 

I bought some Hoosier A3S03s in 225/45-15 from Rodney in late September. He had set them aside as used up/worn out/not sticky. I threw them on my 15x7 inch wheels, and went out and did 17 runs on very abrasive concrete (airport runway). I then mounted them on 15x8.5 Kodiaks, treated them with Formula V Traction Treatment, and did another 35 or so runs on the same concrete surface. They still have what I consider to be useable life left in them. I will be starting next season with them on the car. When they're done, I'll mount up another set I bought from Rodney. That'll get me to at least mid-May when I intend on buying a new set of the S04s.

I had been running 225/45-15 V700s up to that point. They worked extremely well, and they still had at least 20-30% tread left on them after 20 or so events (upwards of 140 runs). The car is an 89 Civic Hatch that weighs 1,950 lbs. Its setup on 630 lb front springs and 550 lb rears.

The Hoosiers were a good second faster on a 50 second course, and 6-7 tenths faster on a 35 second course. And they were supposedly "done".

 

Wow, this is back from the dead! I looked at one of my posts and realized I gave some incorrect info. Turns out that Hoosier bias ply's and radials *do not* share the same compounds. They're not even close. Something to do with the carcass design... but Ron Vermulm (famous hoosier guy...) told me that the folks at hoosier actually experimented with using the compound from a Street TD (bias ply road race tire) on a radial carcass. He said the tires wore out almost instantly. Way too quickly to be of any use to anyone.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the carcass design could have so much affect on the rubber compund...

 

Good stuff, thanks a lot. I'm still trying to decide whether to get them. This is my first set of race tires, I probably will do 6-8 events this year, 6 runs per event, half of them dry... so probably ~20dry and 20wet. I just want them to last for this year.... you can still see the grooves but they're pretty worn. Do you think they will last?

 

while they may last, they will not be sticky at the end of the season.

 

They will with Formula V!

 

Alright, I think I'll just get some new Ecsta V700s then. Thanks for the help.