Hey guys, I'm new to the honda world and still figuring out who makes what for these cars, specifically for the crx which I'm currently building. Im currently looking into coilers, and am wanting a high quality good coilover. Ive got a $1500 budget for coils alone.Im currently decided on progress coils, as i have first hand experience with them on my buddies ek hatch.

Im wanrting to see if there are any higher quality companies out there that make a coilover that surpasses them in my budget. Just to give an idea ill be putting JRZ's on my 12 wry come the end of the summer, so i have high expectations in ride quality and dampening

 

High end suspension doesn't fit your budget, unless you can find a deal on a used set. In that range I can't see anyone doing much better than Koni/GC or revalved Bilstein/GC.

 

I disagree. I would still look at TEIN and PIC Performance (they're back in after a 2 year hiatus).

The PIC in particular had various spring rate choices that fit the bill, (very popular with the TypeR racers, who are notoriously picky.) plus they work with TypeR rear training and control arm. All for $1200.

 

Neither Tein nor PIC are what I'd call "high quality". Additionally, PIC exiting the market and then coming back doesn't exactly inspire confidence for long term parts, service, and valving.

$1,500 can get you some good but not awesome shocks. As mentioned previously, you could get off the shelf Koni/Bilstein or the Koni Race shocks (revalved and shortened).

Alternately, you may be able to find a set of used Koni 3011's for about that or used 2812's if you want to spend a couple hundred more. "High end" shocks like MCS, Moton, JRZ, JRi, etc are going to be $4200+ new or around $3k used. FWIW, a friend of mine is moving from DA 3011's to MCS doubles and will have used shocks available if you're interested.

Christian

 

Must agree with the above.
1500. isn't going to get you any better than the tried, and tested Koni/GC combo.
Great bang for the buck.
If your looking at JRZ and the alike your budget is about 3000.00 more or so off.

 

To each I suppose. I've gone over that argument about TEIN quality for over 15 years. Its all on the model that you pick up. Its just that for most Honda people on here nowadays, they always get the FLEX or BASIC dampening systems, and not the higher end models. So, if you're experience is limited to the "lower end" models, of course they'll seem lower quality.

I have a set of TEIN RAs, and Circuit Masters on my Hondas, and have been on the circuit and attack for several years with them without a single hiccup. If I need support, I call, I get it... I liked them so much that I got a spare set of older ones from a family member that had finally died, sent them in to be refurbished for $400 and used them 2 years since..

With Konis, they're a great shock company, but support is NILL if one of them go bad or there's an issue after install. You're basically stuck on the Jackstands for a month until they figure out if something is wrong, and determining fault. No thanks, I just don't have that kind of time.

As for PIC, its best to be informed, and know the whole situation of a business like that before passing judgement. I know that may not seem fair in this "he-say-she-say" world of the interwebs, but simply coming back into an industry after a hiatus doesn't necessarily mean it was due to a quality issue in their products, or being financially defunct. That happens to many smaller-sized businesses a lot, and you may not even know it. How many times did Apple get it wrong, before they got it right? Yes, I do think that some businesses fail for a reason that may involve impropriety, but you don't really know for sure.. I think that sort of conclusory attitude is really putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, wouldn't you say?

So, to the OP, make your decision based upon your information that you find, setups that perform similar to your needs, or even a few phone calls to the various companies that you're interested in.. But "feedback" opinions from us here only go so far.. They are, after all, opinions based upon both experience and hearsay. We're not you, so we can't be you when it comes to making a decision.

Good luck to you.

 

"I'm Troy McClure and you may remember me from such atrocities as 'Ten thousand dollar wheels on a thousand dollar car'".

The CRX conundrum:

1: It's a good and very developed platform such that the performance difference between a GC/Koni setup and a $5k "other" setup is going to be very minimal and unless you're a very and I mean very talented driver you probably won't realize it. So that's the "Juice is worth the squeeze argument"

2: The paradox: If you did have the budget to put actual high-end dampers on a CRX that means you most likely have the budget to be racing something newer, nicer, faster and therefore wouldn't even have the CRX.

3: Servicing: You get excellent servicing by Koni and by other builders such as Performance Shock in CA. Having them valved to your specs is straight forward and cost effective. Not only did Performance Shock rebuild mine but they spent an hour on the phone with me going over the shock dyno charts and talked about how to maximize the use the shock and set the adjustments. It was absolutely stunning.

Whatever you choose. Good luck.

 

I love it.. great intro!!

 

THanks for all the input guys. my thoguhts have been pretty much reassured in that there is a large gap between sub $1000 coilovers and 3k plus. I will look more into the Koni/GC combo and consider my options.

As to the reference to a new nicer car, i currently have a 12 wrx im building as well . Ive always had a soft spot for the crx, being light, nimble, a good chassis, and plethora of knowledge/parts that surround it. (The wrx/sti is actually similar in that respect to the knowledge/parts area)

I guess my reasoning for asking about higher end coils is that i currently have the generic sub par BC racing coils on my wrx (purchased them shortly after getting my car , unknowingly about coilover difference 3 years ago) and i recently rode in a STI with JRZ's and fell in love with them. So i have high expectations of what i want out of coils for future purchases. BUt i will take everyones advice and look into the koni/gc as everyone praises them.

 

High end dampers are usually very good at providing a compliant yet well damped ride. But, as you say, they are expensive. Koni/GC is a good performance-oriented budget suspension but beware that it won't be able to match the big dollar setups for refinement.

 

I have revalved Bilstein/GC on my car and i've been really happy. Support is great from Bilstein and they have a monotube design. Great bang-for-the-buck.

 

High end= motion control

 

They make a helluva shock. I had their triples up front and doubles in the rear. Tremendous adjustability and compliance.

 

I really liked my Koni Race and GC's. I just sold them to go to a custom valved Bilstein that's slightly cheaper than the Koni Race but not adjustable...will report back after I try them out.

I will say, I felt like there was a noticeable jump in performance from the OTS Yellow's to the Race's. Heck even on the street they felt better.

 

Agreed switched to the triples this year and am very happy. Wouldn't buy anything else.

 

Looking forward to reading this.

 

Christian,
Many wouldn't call PIC coilovers high-end and I've never marketed them as high-end, low-end or anything in between. Variations in cost, materials, perceived value and actual quality of products being put out make it difficult for many to say "I got what I paid for and I paid a fair market price" so what is the point of trying to peg something in a spectrum of value/performance/prestige if there's no basis on which to categorize them? IMO it has a lot to do with the lack of information out there (still) about what a good spring and damper setup should do for an otherwise well-sorted car, and how folks can quantify those changes. Good, bad, awesome, terrible, high-end, low-end, these terms are all relative and I'm not sure how using these to answer a member's request for suggestions is helpful. Talk about quantitative measures of the components used (eg oil VI, aluminum grades, source of oil seals and bushes, etc, FEA done to simulate real world conditions for a components intended use) and let the requester do homework on that.

But to say that PIC coilovers are not high quality and that our absence from the market somehow implies that we would not and have not supported existing customers during that time would both be inaccurate statements. While we haven't actively been marketing and pushing out new products, we have continued to issue replacement parts, honor warranties (both inside and outside the 1 year warranty as we always have) and support the authorized dealers that carried our products in the past. And the folks who have continued to track their PIC-equipped cars with no issue since our entrance to the market some 10 years ago might have a different idea than you about the quality of our coilovers.

 

IMO having driven on your shocks, I don't consider them "high-end"... nor do I consider OTS Koni/Bilstein "high end". I agree wholeheartedly that products are made to a price and performance spec and as such should ultimately be measured against that target. This being said, one of the early responses was that Tein and PIC were both "high end" options... I don't think that's the case. Is your product comparable to the others in the same price category? Sure, I'll give you that but they're not in the same league as as JRZ/JRi/MCS/Moton remotes (nor should they be given the MASSIVE price difference).

I only know 3 people who have (well, "had") PIC suspensions and 2 of them struggled* to get responses from your company when they had questions on current valving and what re-valve options were available. The 3rd person was happy with them "as is" and uses them as a street and sometimes casual track/autoX shock. Combine the lack of responsiveness with the exit/return to the market and I would have reservations with dropping the coin or recommending others drop the coin on your products.

I hope you guys will stick around as I think you offer good bang for the buck... only time will tell.

*By "struggled" they were completely unable to get any response or assistance despite repeated emails and, I believe, phone calls.

Christian

 

No sir. If you're going to quote me, Xian (Christian) please at least be precise. With regards to the TEIN suspension models of being what is reasonably considered as the definition of "higher end" models of suspension it depends upon the model you pick. I can easily point out, 3-4 TEIN models that would fall within even your definition of high end. That definition does not include a subjective context of customer support reviews.

I'm not trying to start an argument, nor do I care, you'd think that for the mere fact that my statement was written for all to see, you could at least be thorough enough to quote my statement with some precision to prove your point. You don't get to pull it out of context out of laziness just to satisfy your standpoint.

 

I attended an excellent seminar and one of the presenters was a racing specialist in dampers (and engineer) and worked with several professional teams (ALSM, GT3, Continental etc) as well as consulted for top damper companies like Penske and one of the big takeaways from that seminar was that even high-end dampers and professional damper engineers get it wrong.. a lot. And, most of the very expensive OTS options aren't at all worth their price and several of the (very expensive) brands actually have much of the core design principles wrong (or less than optimal). Similarly that many OTS options that are insanely expensive with remote reservoirs and uber degrees of adjustment exist mainly because people will buy them and the margins are high.

 

True, that's with many things mechanical.. Can't argue with that precise recollection of a synopsis.

 

I'm loving the Progress 450F/550R combo I've got. What options in the OP's price range include independent preload adjustment? That's the one thing I'd opt for the Progress doesn't have.

 

Seriously?

This ^^^ is what you said.

This ^^^ was my response where I referenced PIC (which is what my recent reply was about... PIC, not Tein). Yes, I know you had a lengthier response after that but it was relative to additional Tein details, not PIC quality/performance.

I'm thrilled that you like your Tein's. If I'm running a budget shock, I'd rather run Koni than Tein based on my experiences and perceptions. I didn't jump down your throat over your comments about Koni not standing behind their product so I don't understand your sandy vag attitude in this thread. It's the internet, we're not all going to agree.

 

Was that the recent MSX one or another? Seems like there were some really good seminars this year (again).

 

You can't say "budget shock", then turn around worrying about female reproductive parts bitching about what is considered "higher quality" and what isn't. You want higher quality, then you don't think "budget shock". You pay for what's necessary.

We can agree to disagree, but because of "its the internet" its the lack responsibility you take to your argument that makes it sound petty. It breeds laziness. "Sandy vag" and all. (I'm sure that's how you like to sum up all of your arguments).

Don't be upset that you get busted for not completing your argument fully. You just know not to do it again, that's all.

Have a great day..