I'm not sure what to look for in purchasing a spring (durability? construction? material?).

Either one of those better than the other? What's the difference between them and, say, a ERS spring? Any others?

Thanks.

Andy

 

I have Eibachs on the front, Hypercoils on the rear. Both are quality racing springs.


Matt

 

Good question! B/c I haven been wondering the same thing as well. I hear lightness and consistency are the things you want to look out for.

 

Either will be fine. I have Hyperco in my racecar right now and have used many Eibachs in the past. Hyperco are normally not as common and may cost a little more and are used by more extreme high end racing teams (I think they have like a nearly 40 year win streak at the Indy 500) but both are plenty good at the levels that we play at.

It reminds me of the way people have decribed the braided line companies to me:
Aeroquip= aircraft and highest level racecar at the highest price
Earls= Perfectly fine for the club racer or amateur on a budget
Russell= The basic stuff for a low budget street or drag car but more risk of trouble

 

You shouldn't run different brand springs at the front and rear.

You wouldn't do it with tires would you?

But that's as silly as thinking dynos tell you anything about how fast a car will accelerate.

Alot of people think that the "spring rate" is all there is to a spring. But there's a whole lot more to it. How were the ends ground? What's the surface coating? When you tap them with a wrench do they make a noise that sounds like "Boooiiinnnnggg", or a noise that sounds like "Sprrrooooiiiinnnnng"? Now if you're good - I mean Really Good - you can mix and match springs by the sound. But I wouldn't advise it unless you've apprenticed under Master Spring Boinker.


Scott, who shakes his head at how people take the little things for granted..."when will they ever learn?"...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You shouldn't run different brand springs at the front and rear.

When you tap them with a wrench do they make a noise that sounds like "Boooiiinnnnggg", or a noise that sounds like "Sprrrooooiiiinnnnng"? Now if you're good - I mean Really Good - you can mix and match springs by the sound. But I wouldn't advise it unless you've apprenticed under Master Spring Boinker.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know I really don't appreciate this input. I mean, here I am trying to do the "right" thing by avoiding the "$60 for 4" JDM Gold-plated eBay coilovers and you're going to make fun of me for it?! Next, you'll tell I shouldn't vary the length left to right. I mean, if the ride height is the same, WHAT's the problem!?!? I don't even really need springs AT ALL since I'm going for "maximum drop" anyway. I'm just trying to do things right/H-T way. Sheesh.


"Hello, PitStop? Yeah. I need ONE red 450/2.5/11 Eibach, ONE blue 450/2.5/6 Hypercoil, ONE burnt orange 300/2.5/7 Hypercoil, and ONE black 300/2.5/4 Eibach."

Andy - who thinks Sc00t has been doing a little too much Master Boinking lately.

 

You got me thinking.

You know how when Fast Racer X sells his racecar to Generic Racer Y, and Generic Racer Y proceeds to 1) say how screwed up the setup is, 2) change the setup around, and 3) never go as fast as Racer X?

It would be hilarious to run or sell a car with different length springs on all four corners, and observe reactions (assuming anyone was astute enough to notice).

Scott, who also has had the thought that one could repaint springs the original color and change the rate designation....this occured to me when I saw "3000" on the back of the King/Mugen RSX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You got me thinking.
Scott, who also has had the thought that one could repaint springs the original color and change the rate designation....this occured to me when I saw "3000" on the back of the King/Mugen RSX.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You think that is not true? Realtime run 3000# springs on the rear of their RSX too.

Haev you actually done the testing when making this comment?

 

YES, I am accusing King and RTR of Conspiring to Deceive us.

3000 lbs - Yeah, Right!

Why I bet the real rates are less than 600 (on account of the superior mechanical grip that soft rates give). The only reason they don't run even softer is because the cars would develop so much more grip that they'd tip over in the turns.

Scott, who is not fooled, "They thought they were pretty klever, but they're not Klever Enuf to fOO-eL ME!

 

We entered the NASCAR Market, which they dominated, only one year ago. Within one year, the top 10 teams were on Eibachs, none of which were sponsored by us. That pretty much sums it up.

We`re lighter (yes, lighter!), have more travel and are always within 1-2% of rate. Industry standard being 5-7%.

Ryan

 

Yeah, the HART teams run ~3000lb springs on the rear of their RR cars. They look like railroad car springs. I was told that was the only way to get the cars to turn.

Of course in Japan, it's the opposite, right? That's because their toilets flush counterclockwise. (&lt;---joking on so many levels).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course in Japan, it's the opposite, right? That's because their toilets flush counterclockwise. (&lt;---joking on so many levels).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats in australia, dummy!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We entered the NASCAR Market, which they dominated, only one year ago. Within one year, the top 10 teams were on Eibachs, none of which were sponsored by us. That pretty much sums it up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know that's, um, great and all... but do you sell any springs that turn right?

 

Good point!

I don't like Eibach because they don't offer a Concentric Counterwound spring set.

If you just have a single spring - regardless of which way it's wound - then you get a small rotational moment that can upset a careful alignment and counterweighting.

In our carefully instrumented tesing we've seen this to be worth anywhere from 3 to 4 seconds a lap. Even a driver such as The Great Humungous can barely afford to give away that much to the competition.

Scott, reminding you again that the little things can really add up...joo guyz gotta get mo serius if yr gun go as fast assme...

 

They do if you use 5" springs on the right side of the car and 8" on the left.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You know that's, um, great and all... but do you sell any springs that turn right?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

We do, ask 90% of the WRC Teams

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

We do, ask 90% of the WRC Teams </TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay, now you're just messing with my head. Not only do I have to specify uni-directional springs but they have to be non-drifting, too?!?!

Do you actually build springs for racers or just rednecks and D1 hobos?

 

Back on topic, sorta.

Most folks probably don't test their spring's rate before putting it on their race car.

An experienced race driver and car builder I know only uses Hypercoil springs now. This, after having a hard time troubleshooting some ill handling, and eventually tracking it down to some Eibach springs varying almost 10% from their stated rate. He now tests all his springs and has been very happy with the consistency and QC of the Hypercoils, and continually appalled by the Eibachs.

YMMV

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He now tests all his springs and has been very happy with the consistency and QC of the Hypercoils, and continually appalled by the Eibachs.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have raced three different Hondas on Eibachs, and had Eibachs on my street car. I have no complaints about their products at all.


Matt

 

OK, The Great Humungous is going to be serious for a minute too.

I heard (from some guy who heard if from this other guy) that those Hypercoil Hydraulic Spring Perches are worth 10ths.

You all understand that as springs compress they usually "bend" a little, and this puts a bending moment into the damper which increases stiction on the bushings and seals - netting Reduced Grip at the contact patch.

I'll go further and say that it's not completely pointless then on that same basis to say that using really good spherical bearings on both ends of the damper is helpful as well.

Scott, who has none of the above and considers it overkill for a driver of my humungousness...

 

My limited experience has shown that hypercoils have a better coating on them than the Eibachs. Either that, or knicks in the finish are just more noticable on the red finish than on the blue - which is entirely possible as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My limited experience has shown that hypercoils have a better coating on them than the Eibachs. Either that, or knicks in the finish are just more noticable on the red finish than on the blue - which is entirely possible as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>

One of my current Hypercoil springs has the powder coating coming off one end but I think it is an isolated circumstance that you can't really judge anything from.

Both brands are very good quality in design and manufacture and we aren't going to go wrong with either one. I have owned both and will likely own both in the future. Kind of like asking the waiter which tastes better- the lamb or the veal. Both will be good and serve well, just stay away from the dog food brands.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, The Great Humungous is going to be serious for a minute too.

I heard (from some guy who heard if from this other guy) that those Hypercoil Hydraulic Spring Perches are worth 10ths.

You all understand that as springs compress they usually "bend" a little, and this puts a bending moment into the damper which increases stiction on the bushings and seals - netting Reduced Grip at the contact patch.

I'll go further and say that it's not completely pointless then on that same basis to say that using really good spherical bearings on both ends of the damper is helpful as well.

Scott, who has none of the above and considers it overkill for a driver of my humungousness...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i cant confirm the lap time improvement, but ive seen tests where the hydraulic perches increase grip

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An experienced race driver and car builder I know only uses Hypercoil springs now. This, after having a hard time troubleshooting some ill handling, and eventually tracking it down to some Eibach springs varying almost 10% from their stated rate. He now tests all his springs and has been very happy with the consistency and QC of the Hypercoils, and continually appalled by the Eibachs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fightin' words.

:eating popcorn, waiting for the fight:

 

Eibach


3000# springs? Holy Moly, thats 53.6kg
I've never heard of anyone running over 1000