My biggest worry at an HPDE is losing control of the car or going off course. I have my first two HPDEs lined up for February and April and being the cautious person that I am, I'm sure that I won't get too aggresive. In an unlikely event that I do lose control of the car, I want to have the knowledge of the 'right' things to do. This not only goes for the track but for everyday driving as well. I've had experience of losing control of my car and almost running into oncoming traffic due to some panicked moves I did to prevent someone from running into me.

So I found this class that Carguys offers but I'm not sure if it's worth the $295. That money could be put towards another HPDE or multiple AutoX events but will I be able to learn things in HPDEs/AutoXes that are taught in the Decisive Driving classes?

 

carguys

 

Do you have more info on the Carguys class?

 

Disclaimer: all this was true about 3 years ago when Car Guys was under different ownership. Not sure if anything has changed.

I bought my Mom a Car Guys DD class a few years ago after she got in an accident. She said it was very helpful. The most helpful drills they use are the lane change drills (where you at the last minute have to basically dodge something) and the skid car.

Skid car time is invaluable. IMO there's no safer way to learn car control - even autocrossing isn't as good. The Car Guys DD school is, as far as I know, the least expensive way to get skid car time. I used one several years ago at Bondurant...a school A LOT of money.

There was some amount of info on accident avoidance too, which I sat in on. Good stuff. The only thing you might not be able to put to use is the primer on car maintanence that they give. It was great for Mom, who had no idea that there was such a thing as brake fluid.

Most of the students in there were quite young - my suspicion is that their parents took them to this because it's like Driver's Ed, only much much better.

Hope that helps. Since its been a while since I saw one put on, you might call them and get an idea of the cirriculum before you pony up the money.

 

My $0.02 after a few events (and I still drive like a grandma out there... just ask Tyson.)

If you go to your first few (or several) events with the mindset that you are not there to "push the limits" of your car or your skills and instead are attending the event to improve your basic skills you won't get into trouble. Just take it *easy* at first; don't go out there thinking you are Mika Hakkinen. Just focus on driving the perfect line, guiding the car smoothly around the track, allowing others to pass you without thinking about your manhood. HPDEs are all about learning the right habits and letting the speed come as you improve, not just showing up and spanking everyone else.

The good habits you learn on the track will carry over to street driving: do you always have both hands on the wheel? do you brake, turn and accelerate smoothly? do you leave extra space between cars, or do you ride up on the tail of the person in front of you? You might find that driving on the track will leave you much calmer when you go home... it certainly did that to me.

-Adam


[Modified by mityVR6, 12:36 PM 1/4/2003]

 

Dave, I got all my info from here http://www.decisivedriving.com/

 

yeah, you do....

you control your pace when you drive at HPDE type event. just let your instructor know. i find the amount of fun you have isnt exactly relative to speed anyway, more so your own progression and learning.

 

The CG's skid car is a hoot, plus you'll learn tons with regards to car control

oversteer, understeer, etc..........

 

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Tyson is right, though. You can have a lot of fun going easy and working on getting the line right. Your speed picks up through the day as you get comfortable and start wanting to take the same line more quickly.

-Adam

 

just a little FYI, you get skid pad time in an old Caprice at Friday At The Track (FATT) at Summit Point in addition to the 4 hpde sessions. $175 per day. Although of course the caprices are not a dedicated skid cars so would not be as good of a learning tool as the carguys or racing school skidcars.

carguys

 

I actually went to my first HPDE course 2 months ago. I was nervous/scared as well, but seriously... if you take it easy, worry more about the hitting the lines... you should be fine. I took it slow the first few laps... gradually increased speeds as I got more comfortable, but nothing too drastic. Plus I had a really good instructor keeping me in check.

 

It seems like there's an alternative to Summit but the price is the same.

http://www.bsr-inc.com/AAS.HTM

 

I haven't really heard it mentioned, but HPDE's and accident avoidance classes seem like completely different things to me. HPDE's can help you to improve as a driver on the streets, but only as a side-effect. The last thing anyone wants you doing is testing the limits of your car.

The driver training classes, whether it be BSR's, Carguys', BMW's, etc. seem to be tailored more toward working at and beyond your car's limit in a controlled environment. I am currently trying to talk my wife into one of these events, and should probably go myself. I have several older friends with kids approching 16 and I'm trying to talk them into it as well. Driver's Ed SHOULD include this type of stuff in the first place...

 

No one has yet to mention this - Most folks who have been doing this for awhile ask the question "when" not "if". I think it is unwise to approach the HPDE experience with the idea that you will not go off track.

If you are not willing to risk your car then maybe you should not do an HPDE. If you are not prepared for a wreck (in terms of safety equipment) then maybe you should not do an HPDE.

With all that said, approaching HPDEs with caution is good. The CarGuys DD course sounds like a good idea too.

I don't mean to scare you off, but knowing the realities of the dangers can help you make a decision that is appropriate for you. Driving an HPDE is just like jumping off the roof. You might get hurt and just because all your friends are jumping off the roof doesn't make it any safer. Don't let peer group pressure effect your decisions.

 

A couple of comments.

First, like many have said if you have the correct mind set when going to a HPDE then you will be fine. Go there with the goal of learning and NOT going fast and you will drive away happy and much smarter! Class room and in car instruction are all aimed at keeping you safe and making sure you have a good time.

And YES, indeed I haveworked with Car Guys both as in car and as the class room instructor. We HATE it when people damaged their cars.

On the comment that HPDE stuff does not necessarily help you on the street, I disagree. With the understanding that you WILL NOT be pushing the limits on the street everything else you learn at a HPDE (Car Guys, NASA, etc) will help you on the street. The MOST beneficial skill will be that of improving your vision. No, not eliminating glasses but rather where you look. You will be taught, over and over again, that to do well at a HPDE weekend you must look farther ahead than you do now. Look all the way down the straight. Look at the next corner before you get there. Anticipate where you want to go and look there. This simple sounding (but difficult to teach yourself to implement routinely) will be the biggest change you can make. And, it is invaluable on the street.

For what its worth, in my 10 shchools as a student I NEVER left the track. And, anyone who remembers me driving my old Audi 4000S Quattro will certainly tell you I pushed it pretty hard. But, I had to drive it home and always did. My first off track excursin was as an instructor! Go figure.

Go do the HPDE at the track and enjoy!

Ron

 

It's been my experience that most of the spins or "offs" are a result of throttle lift oversteer or panic braking while in a corner. Most are 180s and don't result in anything more than a little embarassment and some discussion with the instructor.

I would prefer to instruct someone (not a first timer) who has experience in correcting oversteer and has experienced a couple loops. Other than the skid car (which I recommend), eperience will be your best teacher. Just pick the corners where you might push it a little harder carefully!

Greg ~ who is the king of "offs"