A few months ago I was getting my car tuned, after the turner was done he asked it I wanted a button setup to remove power from the car. My car runs ITE so I would have no need for this.
I was a little confused, soiI asked a why. I was told some organization dyno cars to check for cheating and this button would pulling timing / low boost to make sure car meets class rules.

Some time later I went to a Lemons race, spectating. There a team having a head related issue. When the valve cover(s) came off the first thing I saw was retainers that said "a company's name."

Fast forward to last week, I meet someone on CL for car parts and they had "a friend" that had a 350ish in a class which only allows for 305ish in his given car.

So is cheating really this bad in Motorsports that if you are not cheating or playing the the gray than you are not winning? Or am I just that lucky person?

 

Cheating happens... steriods in baseball/cycling/football/etc... hp in car racing...

thats why there is a tech inspection and impounds. sometimes you have to hunt for a year to find the trick, but someone (in all the classes out there) is looking for a competative advantage

 

The more competitive the situation the more likely someone is to cheat to win. I've heard some ridiculous things come out of the spec miata camps.

 

And this ^^^ is why the old grumpy guys keep saying that dyno checking cars for power:weight compliance as they come off the track won't work.

To answer your question, I suspect that cheating in the mid and upper-mid pack is more rampant than anyone realizes. The pointy end guys are normally there on a combo of driver skill and prep. The back markers are there due to the same things. Folks in the middle who perceive that the pointy end guys must be cheating are the ones most likely to play fast and loose with the rules, IMO.

 

Apparently, there are engineers from the Realtime racing camp that runs a few Lemons cars that have full on multi-thousand dollar shocks dropped into OEM shock bodies.

So, yes... cheating happens.

 

Interesting topic, I can remember quite a few times being at the track and seeing someone who normally spends thier time in the mid pack, all of the sudden be just as quick as the leaders. 9/10 they wouldn't make it out of tech without a penalty, and vise versa, guy runs at the front all the time, then gets caught and is religated to a mid pack contender.

I think its a shame, but its the nature of the beast. I race because I love it, and just want to do the best I can, if thats mid pack then so be it. Where is the satisfaction from both a driver and car builder/crew perspective when you know the only reason you won is because you cheated? I dont understand in the case of most grass roots forms of racing, but once you add in sponsorship dollors and prize money I do understand it a hundred percent, doesn't mean I would do it.

I also think there is a big difference between cheating and pushing the limits of the rule book....

 

A lot of guys try to justify cheating with this statement. that being said, there are rules that are vague, and when a vague rule is stretched in a manner not intended, that rules is changed/clarified.

There are a lot of gaps that need to be covered every year because every time another rule is made/adjusted or another car is included, ALL the factors have to be looked at all over again.

HP is always a flag. and i dont need a dyno to see it. i need a dyno to prove it. in a power to weight car, at VIR, if your light weight lower power car keeps pulling on the heavier high horse power car on the front and back straights event after event... lap after lap... your horse power is in question. HP will always win if the straight is long enough.

 

Cheating is all around racing - pro and amateur. In most cases I believe it is a rule "bend" and in pro racing the rules are created such that it is extremely difficult to 'cheat'... however that just makes the builders think of new and creative ways of getting around their restrictions to gain an advantage even if it is a very small gain. I actually know of one little trick a team has now but obviously won't say - and it's not anything crazy - it's very small - but it's almost a guarantee every team is doing something similar - so therefore they have to keep up with the other team's 'little tricks'.

Now in amateur racing where someone clearly gains an advantage to now run with the best cars is really shitty and to make a clearly obvious "press this button to lower the HP by 30HP for tech" is crap and just for an ego boost. And I believe is some cases it can be that easy - but all of these things are detectable and once they win races with national contention they can and will protest and you'll have to do an engine teardown, etc.

I still like the good ol rule stretch where there was no limit to the length of the fuel lines between the gas tank and the motor (nascar can't remember who did this? My Dad knows)... Anyways they ran huge fuel lines zig-zagging under the pan of the car so they held a **** ton of fuel and went a couple extra laps... but hey the tank was still to the same mark...

Interesting topic tho. Honestly I think being able to work around the rules in a reasonable manner and pushing the restrictions to their absolute max separates a top notch race team from the ones who will always be 'mid-pack'.. It's those tricks and attention to detail that help create a car that will be continuously competitive.

 

If I remember this correctly it was though the frame rails of the chassis

 

Cheating confounds me. In levels of racing in which there is something to be gained (professional motorsports etc), or in a situation where winning means retaining your sponsorship dollars then I could see the motivation for it as it's obvious.

However in grassroots forms I don't understand it but for 2 exceptions (which I will explain below). In grassroots racing, there's no sponsorship, TV time, umbrella girls... nothing. The money only flows in one direction as the only point of it is to have fun. So if you cheat and you win then you've only cheated yourself because you didn't really win. Like if you wanted to be the best boxer around and you showed up with a samurai sword, cut your opponent into pieces and then walked away feeling like you're the greatest boxer in the ring, then you're an idiot. And such is cheating at grassroots motorsports.

Exceptions:
Parts: If there's a (legal) part that doesn't exist any more and the only part that does exist isn't technically legal but doesn't give you a performance advantage then I could see someone being tempted. Or stupid things like when some folks removed their washer bottle in Improved Touring. Nobody really complained but it wasn't actually legal to do so (I believe it is now).

Performance: As far as cheating to compete, if you're competitor has deep pockets and you don't then I can see the motivation to "cut corners" to bring yourself more in parity with the well funded competitor. I really don't like this either. I think you pick the class you can afford race with all the fancy stuff or accept how much you're willing to spend and enjoy racing in whatever part of the field that gets you.

Also, not every person racing in grassroots motorsports cheats intentionally. Some folks aren't masters of the rulebook and sometimes swap a part or remove a part that you can/can't do, this can also happen to folks who run in multiple classes.

 

The saying always goes, "There are two types of racers... cheaters and losers."

There's a silly ammount of cheating in LeMons, a lot is very hard to police. Gets worse with all the production level rules that limit modifications, but you just work around all of it by spending cubic dollars for fractional gains.

Could be why I like Group 2 rally rules. 2 wheel drive, N/A motor under 3.0L displacement, cc/weight ratio limits, engine block has to be derived from manufacturer or family of vehicles. Pretty much everything else is open. You can make a mid-engine CRX if you want and still be within the rules. You'll probably still lose to a guy with a 140hp GTI.