Little bit of background on my car; it's a 92 Civic Si, B18C, blah blah, stock disc/disc set-up with Axxis Ultimates and ATE Super Blue.

Anyway, I went to PR yesterday and did a lapping day. Towards the end of the session, I was pretty hard on my brakes and while my pedal never sank to the floor, I had to start braking way earlier than I was used to, and ended up sliding into the dirt at about 3mph when I took too much speed into a turn (oops. ).

So I did a few more laps and came back, the last lap I was behind an S2000 that was only doing about 60mph the entire way for his cooldown lap, which was fine because my brakes took a beating and needed to cool off anyway.

Blah blah, I come back and a guy I know has a pyrometer and points it at my rotors, and they're at around 325 degrees in front which seemed pretty hot to me and I was just wondering if that was normal or are my piddly 9.x" brakes just not going to cut it?

Basically, I'm looking for an excuse to upgrade to GSR or bigger brakes and wanted some advice. The small brakes work great for autoxing and daily stuff, but it's not fun braking from 120-80mph and such at the track.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock disc/disc set-up with Axxis Ultimates and ATE Super Blue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your brake size is fine.. but there is one thing in this quote that needs to be fixed for "track" days.

Answer: Axxis Ultimates. The ultimates are a GREAT auto-x pad but NOT for track. Try some carbotech pads like (panther plus's or XP's) or try some Cobalt Frictions pads. Trust me, those pads will make a HUGE difference! You already have a good fluid in there so that shouldn't be an issue.

325! Thats weaksauce I burned the paint off my Centric rotors, I bet that chit was good for 1200+

Get some Carbotech Panther Plus (probably not enough with tiny civic discs) or XP8's and Motul 600 fluid.

My rotor hats are a pretty purple/blue color...

Anyway, if I change pads at the track, should I be changing rotors too? Seems like a set of "race" pads trying to brake on my Axxis-bedded rotors wouldn't work out so great.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyway, if I change pads at the track, should I be changing rotors too? Seems like a set of "race" pads trying to brake on my Axxis-bedded rotors wouldn't work out so great.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is probably the best way to do it, and I've gone to doing it this way as well. I put track rotors/pads on before I leave for the weekend, XP8's are fine for street use.

I have been using an R&D friction compound for a distributor this past month. I have been running them on an ITA CRX and have not had any issues with pad tapering, increasing pedal travel, fluid boiling, rotor warpage, etc. We currently have 270 minutes (20 wet) on the pads with approx 20% wear. The rotors are in better condition than with any other pad I have used. We also seem to have lost the urge to bleed the brakes EVERY single time we come off track.

They have yet to be labeled and will not come cheap (probably $220/set) but I currently believe they may last 2 to 3 times longer than PF90/93, Cobalt, Carbotech etc. I definately have full confindence in the brakes over a 30 minute race. They will be in production in just over a month but some preproduction custom cuts can be had. IM me if interested.

Rick--Who is hoping Colin shows up to his 1st race with real brake pads.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My rotor hats are a pretty purple/blue color...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Normal. You can use one set of rotors with both pads. I used to swap rotors and pads at the track, but you really don't have to IMO. As long as the rotors are in good shape, you'll be fine.

$.02

The new race pad Rick is talking about is no joke. Hit him up for info.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Blah blah, I come back and a guy I know has a pyrometer and points it at my rotors, and they're at around 325 degrees in front which seemed pretty hot to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

that reading is pretty worthless if you ask me. brake temperatures get well into 5 digits as rj mentioned.

if the brakes go mushy but come back later in the day.....replace pads
if the brakes go mushy and stay mushy......get better fluid

Nice Rick:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rick--Who is hoping Colin shows up to his 1st race with real brake pads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have Hawk Blues on the front and *Mystery pads* in the rear but I talked to the guy who built the car and he told me that I should turn both brake bias's to the front brakes because get the "brakes" out of the rear was a rear feat.

I have meaty pads on front and rear and I will also bring a second set of pads and rotors.

You can't get accurate brake temps after doing a cool down lap. It's got to be immediately after a session. 325 doesn't tell you much. The Ultimates are most likely the cause. You probably experienced pad fade, where the coeff. of fric. drops off without really affecting pedal travel (or feel to some extent) as you would experience with fluid fade. Get track pads.

If I remember correctly you should have to change rotors if you change to track pads if I remember the Carbotech bedding instructions. Don't you have to lay down some microfilm transfer of the pad material onto the rotors before they are bedded? Having another brake pad material that is different than your track pad screws up the process. Or so they say.
Barry H.

after a cool down lap i've had my rotors so hot that one of those little "IR" pyrometers could not read it (1000+) i'm with above - get better pads if you plan to spend a lot of time on the track. consider having a dedicated set of pads.

I use hawk blues on the track in the subaru, but your favorite manufacturer probably has a comparable pad if you prefer someone else to hawk.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">brake temperatures get well into 5 digits as rj mentioned. </TD></TR></TABLE>

5 digits? What is this, space shuttle re-entry?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5 digits? What is this, space shuttle re-entry? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Melting point of Iron = 2800 F

Boiling! point of Iron = 4900 F

I think you have some other issues if you're experiencing 5 digit temps.

My brakes were @ ~ 425 degrees after a cool down lap. My car is 3000 lbs tho.
I assume had I come in off a hot lap, they would have easily been in the 1000's
A cheap, altho not acutely accurate method, is caliper paint. Give that a try. It doesn't exactly tell you the temp at the rotor/pad interface, but it's a good indication of mean operating temps.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

5 digits? What is this, space shuttle re-entry? </TD></TR></TABLE>

at the speeds i drive.....yes, 5 digits.

my mistake, i meant 4 digits.

I have had temp. paint on my rotors before that indicated temperatures well north of 1100 deg. F.

--Karl, who has been black flagged for glowing, flaming brakes...more than once...

Thanks for the advice guys, looks like I'll try out a set of track pads and freshly bleed my fluid before the next hpde/lapping day I attend.

Leaning towards either the Carbotech XP8s or Hawk Blues.

The XP8s up front with Ultimates in the rear has been an excellent combo for me.

if you are looking for an excuse to get the bigger rotors, your excuse right there. The rotors are too small and your pads are too hard. Now go get your self some SIR's or GSR's they are almost the same, and get some track pads. And you will be just fine when you return to the track. This route will save you money and give you what you are looking for. Good luck, and enjoy your new set up!!

Pads are too hard?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if the brakes go mushy but come back later in the day.....replace pads
if the brakes go mushy and stay mushy......get better fluid</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good info.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have had temp. paint on my rotors before that indicated temperatures well north of 1100 deg. F.</TD></TR></TABLE>

anyone got a source for those neat-o stick-on temp strips? I've seen the paint kits in Pegasus or someplace like that, but not the strips.

The PTG cars had the temp strips on everything that might possibly get hot. I shoulda asked where they got them, but...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen the paint kits in Pegasus or someplace like that, but not the strips.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're a bit pricey

But I'd split a kit wiht someone...... You interested?