I just completed my 5th autox event yesterday and I drove like crap. It seems like haven't felt like I been improving at all lately, and I was wondering if any of you other AutoXers had any useful tips. I already know about looking ahead (and need to do it more) so you can save your breath there, so I guess driving techniques is what I'm really looking for here.
Honda-Tech Member
Ride with people who are faster and let them demonstrate the right way to drive the course. It's most helpful when they're driving the same car as you. Secondly, let someone ride along with you and then give constructive criticsm on what you need to do to improve.
You could also attend an Evolution autocross school too where you get a day full of practice with high quality National autocross drivers. They'll not only provide advice while riding shotgun, but will also drive your car...the right way. The most beneficial thing IMO was the split times which allowed me to try different approaches (lines) and see what was faster and what wasn't. Of course, YMMV.
You could also attend an Evolution autocross school too where you get a day full of practice with high quality National autocross drivers. They'll not only provide advice while riding shotgun, but will also drive your car...the right way. The most beneficial thing IMO was the split times which allowed me to try different approaches (lines) and see what was faster and what wasn't. Of course, YMMV.
Wrong-Way Wang
Brake less. I'm serious! You'd be amazed at the speed you can carry if you take the right line. What's the right line? Well... That's impossible to give a general answer, other than, the fastest one 
If you're having trouble improving, like you've hit a stump, the thing that worked for me is forking over the keys to a really good driver, and letting them take your car out with you in the passenger's seat. Use this time wisely as it's very short in duration. Notice how they look ahead, and watch how they work the controls. Do they shift differently? Do they brake differently? Are the lines different? You should have a feel for when to brake, and how much speed your car is willing to carry before it gets into trouble.
Biggest thing I do to speed up during the day is shorten my braking zones and increase the throttle zone. Playing with lines buys me a little, but this one lets you really build up and carry speed.
Warren
If you're having trouble improving, like you've hit a stump, the thing that worked for me is forking over the keys to a really good driver, and letting them take your car out with you in the passenger's seat. Use this time wisely as it's very short in duration. Notice how they look ahead, and watch how they work the controls. Do they shift differently? Do they brake differently? Are the lines different? You should have a feel for when to brake, and how much speed your car is willing to carry before it gets into trouble.
Biggest thing I do to speed up during the day is shorten my braking zones and increase the throttle zone. Playing with lines buys me a little, but this one lets you really build up and carry speed.
Warren
Wrong-Way Wang
Hehe, we posted some of the same advice. Nice.
Warren
Warren
Trial User
I'm a pretty new driver myself, but I went to a autox school put on by the local sports car club and came away with a few things. I'd never really ridden with a really fast driver before that, and once I did I realized what I wasn't doing, namely accelerating and going at top speed until the last possible second, then getting on the brakes HARD (but in a straight line, controlled way) and then carrying as much speed as possible through the corners.
I compared my ride with what I was doing and noticed a huge difference. I've since made a concious effort to be firmer with my braking and that's made a decent improvement.
The other thing is to be really smooth. If you watch the fast guys, they hardly ever look like they are even trying, then just flow along at a near constant speed.
Getting your tire pressures is really important too. I'm still trying to get that right (and will be even more screwed up because I am getting some R tires soon) but at the last event I left my tires alone until the last run, when I decided to add a bit more. I did my run and felt like I was slipping more than before, but actually went faster than all my other runs.
Try to ride with some experienced people, and just be smooth as you can with everything.
I compared my ride with what I was doing and noticed a huge difference. I've since made a concious effort to be firmer with my braking and that's made a decent improvement.
The other thing is to be really smooth. If you watch the fast guys, they hardly ever look like they are even trying, then just flow along at a near constant speed.
Getting your tire pressures is really important too. I'm still trying to get that right (and will be even more screwed up because I am getting some R tires soon) but at the last event I left my tires alone until the last run, when I decided to add a bit more. I did my run and felt like I was slipping more than before, but actually went faster than all my other runs.
Try to ride with some experienced people, and just be smooth as you can with everything.
Trial User
Jeff,
Are there any schools that you can recommend? I'm planning on attending a Mid-Ohio school (still trying to decide which one will get me the best bang per buck), but I'm also interested in other options.
-TIA
Are there any schools that you can recommend? I'm planning on attending a Mid-Ohio school (still trying to decide which one will get me the best bang per buck), but I'm also interested in other options.
-TIA
Honda-Tech Member
The 2 things that I learned at a local auto-x school early in my career was how to drive a slolam and how to do a 180 turnaround.
Turn early for the slolam cones. Real early. Turn so early you hit the cone with your rear tire, then turn a touch later Seriously though, if you hit a cone in a slolam, you want to hit it with the back of your car. If you hit cones in a slolam with the front of your car, that usually means you're late. Being late in a slolam will add so much time...
Turnarounds: Basically, this is where you need to go slow. Are you trying to go so fast, your tires are screaming and chattering and the car is pushing like a pig? Slow down. You must slow down, in order to go faster. The difference between getting a turnaround right and blowing it is usually at least 1 second.
Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed. In autocrossing, you want to minimize distance traveled. Don't ever say "If I take this turn wider, I can carry more speed and therefore be faster." I garuntee you won't.
[Modified by MaddMatt, 1:39 PM 6/11/2001]
Turn early for the slolam cones. Real early. Turn so early you hit the cone with your rear tire, then turn a touch later
Seriously though, if you hit a cone in a slolam, you want to hit it with the back of your car. If you hit cones in a slolam with the front of your car, that usually means you're late. Being late in a slolam will add so much time...Turnarounds: Basically, this is where you need to go slow. Are you trying to go so fast, your tires are screaming and chattering and the car is pushing like a pig? Slow down. You must slow down, in order to go faster. The difference between getting a turnaround right and blowing it is usually at least 1 second.
Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed. In autocrossing, you want to minimize distance traveled. Don't ever say "If I take this turn wider, I can carry more speed and therefore be faster." I garuntee you won't.
[Modified by MaddMatt, 1:39 PM 6/11/2001]
New User
All of the above are good suggestions and I wholeheartedly agree.
I would add that, I have noticed that autocross skills seem to come in levels. You get to a point where your skills plateau and no matter what you do you can't get any faster, then all off a sudden something clicks, the lights come on and, you move up to the next level. Don't get frustrated if you don't improve at every event. Since you usually get 3 or 4 minutes of seat time per event it takes a while to develop skills.
The sad thing is the faster you get the harder it is to get faster. I'd be happy to improve my times by a tenth or two.
Good luck.
I would add that, I have noticed that autocross skills seem to come in levels. You get to a point where your skills plateau and no matter what you do you can't get any faster, then all off a sudden something clicks, the lights come on and, you move up to the next level. Don't get frustrated if you don't improve at every event. Since you usually get 3 or 4 minutes of seat time per event it takes a while to develop skills.
The sad thing is the faster you get the harder it is to get faster. I'd be happy to improve my times by a tenth or two.
Good luck.
Honda-Tech Member
For auto-xing I'd strongly recommend the Evolution school (http://autocross.com/evolution/). I attended the phase one this spring and really came away feeling a lot more comfortable with my driving. I still had some things I needed to work on, but got confirmation on what I was doing right and got to try some things to see if they were faster or not, like downshifting to first on really slow courses. Is it better (faster) to do that in a TypeR or not? Both Ron Bauer and I did it and the difference in the times when we'd stayed in second were negligible. And since we had split times I knew definitively that the shifts didn't matter rather than having run and entire course in about the same time and wondering if I did things differently elsewhere which caused the times to be the same.
It's the little things like that which made the class so valuable to me. I'm looking forward to a phase two either late this year or early next year.
It's the little things like that which made the class so valuable to me. I'm looking forward to a phase two either late this year or early next year.
Trial User
I'm a firm believer that the only way to get faster is to learn from the fast guys (and gals). That said, your best bet is to find an autocross school to attend. Evolution, Track Time, and even local sports car clubs do schools where fast and more experienced drivers do the instructing. What you learn from them is amazing. If you cant attend a school, find someone in your club that is fast and has alot of experience, have them ride with you and point out things you are doing wrong. Also, walk the course with them and pay attention to what they are doing.
Without doing these types of things, you'll just keep re-enforcing bad habits, and probably not see much improvement in your driving.
Finally, once you figure out the ins and outs of autocrossing, get as much seat time as you can. The more you race, the faster you'll get.
PS - another good thing to do is attend some track events/drivers schools. These high speed events will give you a new perspective on car control, and also help you when autocrossing on faster and more wide open autocross courses.
Here's some links: http://www.autocross.com/evolution/
http://www.tracktime.com/school2.asp
[Modified by Tegsport Racing, 2:31 PM 6/11/2001]
Without doing these types of things, you'll just keep re-enforcing bad habits, and probably not see much improvement in your driving.
Finally, once you figure out the ins and outs of autocrossing, get as much seat time as you can. The more you race, the faster you'll get.
PS - another good thing to do is attend some track events/drivers schools. These high speed events will give you a new perspective on car control, and also help you when autocrossing on faster and more wide open autocross courses.
Here's some links: http://www.autocross.com/evolution/
http://www.tracktime.com/school2.asp
[Modified by Tegsport Racing, 2:31 PM 6/11/2001]
Honda-Tech Member
I attended a track school by PDA at Pocono and came back the next day for an SCCA autox, and I cleaned up!
I almost got 3rd FTD and I was stoked.
the track drivinng showed me how late I really could brake, and how hard the car could be pushed.. it was a lot farther than I figured .. and farther than I had been throwing it before...
and ride with the fast guys... that is a big help... watch their brake foot...
it could be their left foot!
I almost got 3rd FTD and I was stoked.
the track drivinng showed me how late I really could brake, and how hard the car could be pushed.. it was a lot farther than I figured .. and farther than I had been throwing it before...
and ride with the fast guys... that is a big help... watch their brake foot...
it could be their left foot!
Trial User
Gman: Are you thinking about doing a track school at Mid Ohio (vs an autocross school)? I've been to several there, as a matter of fact I took the Honda Advanced High Performance school 3 times. Not sure if thats what they still call it, but at any rate, they are pretty pricey for what you get. You get alot of track time and all, but your better off trying to get into a Porsche Club or BMW Club drivers school. You can usually do a two day school for about $300, and that includes much of what you get with the Mid Ohio school....but for alot less money.
Oh yea, I dropped two bills on a road racing school at Road Atlanta two years ago. Was that worth it? Well, I sorta classified it as a vacation, and I sure as hell had alot more fun there than I would have if I had went on a cruise or something
Oh yea, I dropped two bills on a road racing school at Road Atlanta two years ago. Was that worth it? Well, I sorta classified it as a vacation, and I sure as hell had alot more fun there than I would have if I had went on a cruise or something
Quote:
Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all
times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed. In autocrossing, you want to
minimize distance traveled. Don't ever say "If I take this turn wider, I can carry more speed and therefore be faster."
I garuntee you won't.
I don't entirely agree, this is very course (and course element) dependent. Yes, you want to hit all your apexes as close as possible (like tires rolling over the base of cones) but how you enter and exit the turn, especially if it requires a late apex as many turns do in a fwd car, could be a rather circuitous route.Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all
times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed. In autocrossing, you want to
minimize distance traveled. Don't ever say "If I take this turn wider, I can carry more speed and therefore be faster."
I garuntee you won't.
To the original question, I can't emphasize enough how much riding with good drivers can teach you. As stated above Evolution schools are great for this, I had so many moments where I thought "so thats how they do it" that I can't count. If you can't get to one of their schools, one technique they (and many other schools) use is a no-brake run. Try to do the entire course without touching the brake pedal. This will teach you a lot about looking through a turn and conserving momentum.
Matt
New User
Everybody here agrees on one thing - ride with someone faster. I rode with Bob Endicott at an event in '98 and I was in total shock after just 1 run. I could not believe how much harder the car could brake, how much more grip it seemed to have and how much power it seemed to have. Not to mention how much faster times he was turning! That was definitely the one eye opener for me in autocrssing. Bob was nice enough to ride with me for a few runs and give me pointers. Here are a few things he told me, which since then, I tried to maximize at every event as much as I can.
1. Walk the course until time runs out. Seriously, I never walk the course less than 5 times at any rather "serious" event I take part in. 90% of novice autocrossers make the mistake of walking only once or twice and while doing so, they are constantly talking to someone and not paying any attention to the course. Not knowing the course perfectly in your head is the number one factor that will slow you down.
2. Endicott's theory is that you loose time in the slow sections and you gain time in the faster parts. Basically, you want to be as tight as possible in the slow sections to minimize the distance you travel. You do not want to go wide in slow parts of the course. Instead, you want to spend as little time in the slow section as possible. Since you are already going slow, taking a wider line will greatly extend the time period it takes for you to clear that portion of the course. You would not believe how much time you can loose (or make up) in the slow parts of the track. Faster parts require a different approach. Here you need to find the right line that will enable you to carry as much speed as possible. Since speeds are much higher, the fact that you are taking a wider line will barely cost you any time, but in return you will have to brake less for the section, you'll carry more speed through the turn and you'll also have a faster exit speed. To sum it all up: cut as much distance as possible in the tight parts and carry as much speed as you can through the fast parts. (not the other way around!)
3. Shifting - this part comes later on as we get more experienced. For the first 30+ events or so, I would never leave 2nd gear and just concentrate on being smooth, brake as late as I could and getting on the gas early. Downshifting to 1st gear is completely pointless if you're not able to take the car to its limit through the course. This is the biggest mistake people make. They think that if they hear the engine at 7000 rpm, it means they're going faster - which is wrong. Downshifting all the time takes away from your concentration required to drive the course itself and it also make for a much rougher drive. Only when you're used to keeping the car at its limit as much as possible and you're constantly getting good times would downshift be the next step. On the course I rode with Endicott, he made 12 shifts (downshifted to 1st gear 5 times). However, he WAS able to keep the car at the absolute limit while at the same time being perfectly smooth by matching the revs. I could not feel his downshifts at all! All I felt was the great rush of power the car had as it pulled out of turns at 6500 rpm in 1st as opposed to 4500 in 2nd. Worrying about shifting should be last on anyone's list. (Turbo cars and those with low-end torque do not require downshifting to 1st, but peaky cars such as GSRs, Type Rs, Sis, etc. do benefit.)
All this is not taking into account car setup, which is mainly tire pressures on stock cars. Again, don't let tire pressures, etc. pre-occupy you too much as you will loose focus on the most important element - driving the car right.
[Modified by Hracer, 8:20 PM 6/11/2001]
1. Walk the course until time runs out. Seriously, I never walk the course less than 5 times at any rather "serious" event I take part in. 90% of novice autocrossers make the mistake of walking only once or twice and while doing so, they are constantly talking to someone and not paying any attention to the course. Not knowing the course perfectly in your head is the number one factor that will slow you down.
2. Endicott's theory is that you loose time in the slow sections and you gain time in the faster parts. Basically, you want to be as tight as possible in the slow sections to minimize the distance you travel. You do not want to go wide in slow parts of the course. Instead, you want to spend as little time in the slow section as possible. Since you are already going slow, taking a wider line will greatly extend the time period it takes for you to clear that portion of the course. You would not believe how much time you can loose (or make up) in the slow parts of the track. Faster parts require a different approach. Here you need to find the right line that will enable you to carry as much speed as possible. Since speeds are much higher, the fact that you are taking a wider line will barely cost you any time, but in return you will have to brake less for the section, you'll carry more speed through the turn and you'll also have a faster exit speed. To sum it all up: cut as much distance as possible in the tight parts and carry as much speed as you can through the fast parts. (not the other way around!)
3. Shifting - this part comes later on as we get more experienced. For the first 30+ events or so, I would never leave 2nd gear and just concentrate on being smooth, brake as late as I could and getting on the gas early. Downshifting to 1st gear is completely pointless if you're not able to take the car to its limit through the course. This is the biggest mistake people make. They think that if they hear the engine at 7000 rpm, it means they're going faster - which is wrong. Downshifting all the time takes away from your concentration required to drive the course itself and it also make for a much rougher drive. Only when you're used to keeping the car at its limit as much as possible and you're constantly getting good times would downshift be the next step. On the course I rode with Endicott, he made 12 shifts (downshifted to 1st gear 5 times). However, he WAS able to keep the car at the absolute limit while at the same time being perfectly smooth by matching the revs. I could not feel his downshifts at all! All I felt was the great rush of power the car had as it pulled out of turns at 6500 rpm in 1st as opposed to 4500 in 2nd. Worrying about shifting should be last on anyone's list. (Turbo cars and those with low-end torque do not require downshifting to 1st, but peaky cars such as GSRs, Type Rs, Sis, etc. do benefit.)
All this is not taking into account car setup, which is mainly tire pressures on stock cars. Again, don't let tire pressures, etc. pre-occupy you too much as you will loose focus on the most important element - driving the car right.
[Modified by Hracer, 8:20 PM 6/11/2001]
All the pointers have been very informative. This weekend there is an autox event at Laguna Seca that I think I'll try to get some fun run rides with some of the top ranking drivers (in simmilar cars).
I built a in car video camera mount to record my runs but it's hard to tell what I'm doing wrong when I don't know what is right.
I built a in car video camera mount to record my runs but it's hard to tell what I'm doing wrong when I don't know what is right.
Trial User
Jeff,
Was the phase one school in Cincinnati? I just emailed to get more info on the phase one school being held there in July. Thanks for the link!
Brett,
Thanks for the advice. I'll try looking out for more "cost effective" schools.
Great thread!
Was the phase one school in Cincinnati? I just emailed to get more info on the phase one school being held there in July. Thanks for the link!
Brett,
Thanks for the advice. I'll try looking out for more "cost effective" schools.
Great thread!
Honda-Tech Member
I hope there isn't a length limit for these replies... Following is a compendium of "Autocross Fortune Cookies" I gathered from local club (THSCC) members for an autocross school earlier this year. Some whimsical, most excellent:
Mike Whitney
· When you get up to the start line, try repeating to yourself, "Smooth and fast, smooth and fast".
· Try to use a constant throttle position in slaloms.
· If you find yourself getting frustrated in the middle of a run, try screaming a few "YeeeHaaa"s or "WooHoo!!!". You'll feel better.
· If you have to hit a tree, aim for a soft tree.
Mark Coffin
The best advice I can give (and it applies to road racing as well) is: LOOK UP! Instead of focusing on the gate immediately in front of you, look up and see the next couple of gates in sequence. This will help avoid getting lost and improve smoothness.
Kathy Morris
Shiny side up, and keep it on the black part.
Geoff Bishel
"Go fast in the fast parts, go slow in the slow parts, and learn to tell the difference between the two". Sounds kind of obvious, but the learning to tell the difference is the key.
Karl Shultz
· Don't hit the tree again.
· Don't lift.
· Don't let Whitney, Whipple, or Fisher drive your car
OK, seriously...
· Look WAAYY ahead.
· Slow down more than you think you should for turnarounds.
· Chicago boxes aren't
· as bad as you think they are.
· Squeeze the power on - the gas pedal isn't an on/off switch.
· Turn "behind" the cones in slaloms.
· Pace the slaloms on your coursewalks.
· If you can't play back the course in your mind, go walk it again.
· If you find yourself looking in the mirror to see if you hit a cone, turn your mirrors backwards so you can't do that.
Carl Fisher
· Look ahead at least several gates.
· As you walk the course, identify a few key places and decide what feature you want to be looking ahead to when you get there. Then when you're running the course, it's easier to remember to look ahead to those spots.
· Brake early -- it's better to hit the brakes half a second too early than a tenth of a second too late. (now if I can follow my own advice here!
· If you screw up a run, use the rest of the run to try something different -- whether it's using a different gear someplace, going faster through some feature you don't know if you can make, or braking earlier.
· Don't let a bad run get you down. Find the lesson in the mistake you made, and use it to your advantage next time.
· Spend at least your first year on street tires -- they're better for learning car control.
David Teague
Picked this up off of the evolution mailing list: "Those who think tight courses are tight do not have the patience to Drive Them".
David Stone
This is from a movie called Better Off Dead: "Go that way really fast... If something gets in your way... turn!"
Aaron Buckley
· Have your car setup the way you like prior to getting to grid (i.e. tire pressures, seat adjustment, windows open, etc.) When you get in the car, your only focus should be on visualization of your run.
· Visualize your run. Run through the course in your mind, running the perfect line... very smooth and fast. If you can visualize it, you're more apt to do it.
· If you make a mistake, don't lose your head. Focus on the remainder of the course, trying to improve on the latter section of the course.
· Pretend you have an uncooked egg between your right foot and the gas pedal. You want to be smooth on the gas, and smooth off. This keeps from upsetting the suspension. Think, 'don't break the egg!'.
· Learn to relax. Listen to relaxing music or breath deeply prior to a run. Also, plenty of Melon Creeper the night before can help with this too...
Mike Dishman
· Imagine the throttle and steering wheel connected by a string......as you unwind the steering, you can feed in more throttle (I didn't think of this one, but it's always been a helpful one for me).
· Keep your eyes up!
· Walk the course as many times as possible......ask an experienced driver if you can walk it with them.
· Try to ride with an experience driver during fun runs.
Ron Spencer
I remember hearing that its not important how fast you are in a turn. Rather, the goal should be to spend as little time as possible in the turn. Different goal, better results.
Jon Kerfoot
How about "Happy feet = Bad"? M.E. Daniel mentioned at one of the RM schools that I had (still have, to my great distress) "happy feet" during autocross runs.
Bill Koff
Gary Minarcine's MR-2 used to have an index card taped to the dash that said "Look Ahead". And of course, there's always "Feel the force, Luke".
Brad Mackey
1.) (The inevitable) Look Ahead!
1a.) (The also inevitable) Think Ahead
Stan Vann
One of the most important and yet hardest things to do in autocross or any fast driving, is to look where you want to go, not just in front of the car. You really need to force yourself to look ahead and around curves. Also don't try to brake so late. It almost always works better to go in a little slow and get on the power earlier on the exit. The ol' saying "in slow out fast" is true. You really have a hard time getting the power back on early, if your fighting for control under braking. One more thing, try to close your eyes and imagine driving the course just before you make your run.
And the most important tip of all…
HAVE FUN!
Mike Whitney
· When you get up to the start line, try repeating to yourself, "Smooth and fast, smooth and fast".
· Try to use a constant throttle position in slaloms.
· If you find yourself getting frustrated in the middle of a run, try screaming a few "YeeeHaaa"s or "WooHoo!!!". You'll feel better.
· If you have to hit a tree, aim for a soft tree.
Mark Coffin
The best advice I can give (and it applies to road racing as well) is: LOOK UP! Instead of focusing on the gate immediately in front of you, look up and see the next couple of gates in sequence. This will help avoid getting lost and improve smoothness.
Kathy Morris
Shiny side up, and keep it on the black part.
Geoff Bishel
"Go fast in the fast parts, go slow in the slow parts, and learn to tell the difference between the two". Sounds kind of obvious, but the learning to tell the difference is the key.
Karl Shultz
· Don't hit the tree again.
· Don't lift.
· Don't let Whitney, Whipple, or Fisher drive your car
OK, seriously...
· Look WAAYY ahead.
· Slow down more than you think you should for turnarounds.
· Chicago boxes aren't
· as bad as you think they are.
· Squeeze the power on - the gas pedal isn't an on/off switch.
· Turn "behind" the cones in slaloms.
· Pace the slaloms on your coursewalks.
· If you can't play back the course in your mind, go walk it again.
· If you find yourself looking in the mirror to see if you hit a cone, turn your mirrors backwards so you can't do that.
Carl Fisher
· Look ahead at least several gates.
· As you walk the course, identify a few key places and decide what feature you want to be looking ahead to when you get there. Then when you're running the course, it's easier to remember to look ahead to those spots.
· Brake early -- it's better to hit the brakes half a second too early than a tenth of a second too late. (now if I can follow my own advice here!
· If you screw up a run, use the rest of the run to try something different -- whether it's using a different gear someplace, going faster through some feature you don't know if you can make, or braking earlier.
· Don't let a bad run get you down. Find the lesson in the mistake you made, and use it to your advantage next time.
· Spend at least your first year on street tires -- they're better for learning car control.
David Teague
Picked this up off of the evolution mailing list: "Those who think tight courses are tight do not have the patience to Drive Them".
David Stone
This is from a movie called Better Off Dead: "Go that way really fast... If something gets in your way... turn!"
Aaron Buckley
· Have your car setup the way you like prior to getting to grid (i.e. tire pressures, seat adjustment, windows open, etc.) When you get in the car, your only focus should be on visualization of your run.
· Visualize your run. Run through the course in your mind, running the perfect line... very smooth and fast. If you can visualize it, you're more apt to do it.
· If you make a mistake, don't lose your head. Focus on the remainder of the course, trying to improve on the latter section of the course.
· Pretend you have an uncooked egg between your right foot and the gas pedal. You want to be smooth on the gas, and smooth off. This keeps from upsetting the suspension. Think, 'don't break the egg!'.
· Learn to relax. Listen to relaxing music or breath deeply prior to a run. Also, plenty of Melon Creeper the night before can help with this too...
Mike Dishman
· Imagine the throttle and steering wheel connected by a string......as you unwind the steering, you can feed in more throttle (I didn't think of this one, but it's always been a helpful one for me).
· Keep your eyes up!
· Walk the course as many times as possible......ask an experienced driver if you can walk it with them.
· Try to ride with an experience driver during fun runs.
Ron Spencer
I remember hearing that its not important how fast you are in a turn. Rather, the goal should be to spend as little time as possible in the turn. Different goal, better results.
Jon Kerfoot
How about "Happy feet = Bad"? M.E. Daniel mentioned at one of the RM schools that I had (still have, to my great distress) "happy feet" during autocross runs.
Bill Koff
Gary Minarcine's MR-2 used to have an index card taped to the dash that said "Look Ahead". And of course, there's always "Feel the force, Luke".
Brad Mackey
1.) (The inevitable) Look Ahead!
1a.) (The also inevitable) Think Ahead
Stan Vann
One of the most important and yet hardest things to do in autocross or any fast driving, is to look where you want to go, not just in front of the car. You really need to force yourself to look ahead and around curves. Also don't try to brake so late. It almost always works better to go in a little slow and get on the power earlier on the exit. The ol' saying "in slow out fast" is true. You really have a hard time getting the power back on early, if your fighting for control under braking. One more thing, try to close your eyes and imagine driving the course just before you make your run.
And the most important tip of all…
HAVE FUN!
Trial User
Great stuff Whitney.
I don't autocross much anymore, just spending too much time and money at the track, but when I did I had the benefit of ALOT of great national level drivers here in Atlanta. I tried to get advice from all of them. You just can't have too much.
The best advice I ever got was from Ken Rupp (he is simply awesome for those who have never seen him). He told me simply "Go slow to go fast."
What does that mean???
Well... if youre squealing tires and kicking up dust, you are putting on a good show, but you're not going fast.
Stay smooth and under control. Brake early and keep the car steady. And as mentioned above, recognize slow sections of the course and drive them slow, just shorten them up. NOTHING slows you down faster than trying to go fast through a slow section of a course.
If you ever get to watch a guy like Rupp, pay close attention. He looks like he isn't going fast at all. Then the time pops up... unbelievable.
I don't autocross much anymore, just spending too much time and money at the track, but when I did I had the benefit of ALOT of great national level drivers here in Atlanta. I tried to get advice from all of them. You just can't have too much.
The best advice I ever got was from Ken Rupp (he is simply awesome for those who have never seen him). He told me simply "Go slow to go fast."
What does that mean???
Well... if youre squealing tires and kicking up dust, you are putting on a good show, but you're not going fast.
Stay smooth and under control. Brake early and keep the car steady. And as mentioned above, recognize slow sections of the course and drive them slow, just shorten them up. NOTHING slows you down faster than trying to go fast through a slow section of a course.
If you ever get to watch a guy like Rupp, pay close attention. He looks like he isn't going fast at all. Then the time pops up... unbelievable.
Trial User
For the record, this was the best thread I've read ever on this board. And I have found a ton of usefull stuff on this board. Kudos to all who replyed, great comments and advice all the way around.
There is nothing that will make you faster thn feeling what it is supposed to be like riding next to an excellent driver. The other thing I learned is to never stop learning. I have been instructing for a couple of years and I still take better drivers out every single chance I get.
Chris
There is nothing that will make you faster thn feeling what it is supposed to be like riding next to an excellent driver. The other thing I learned is to never stop learning. I have been instructing for a couple of years and I still take better drivers out every single chance I get.
Chris
Honda-Tech Member
Geratol, don't give up.
Besides the excellent advice from everyone else, the only other word of wisdom I can add is "time". Seat time and what I call brain absorption time.
In my first year of autocrossing, I sucked big time at it. I was consistenly in the bottom 25%. I got frustrated but I kept going. This gave me the seat time.
The next season, after about 5 months without autocrossing (cold Canadian winters will do that) I went back and I was consistenly in the top 4 at each event. Nothing changed on my car. I think my brain needed the time to process everything I had learned the season before.
I rarely autocross now and focus on Solo 1 instead but I still find that if I'm on a new track, I am significantly faster and smoother the second time on it since I've had a chance to process all the data collected from the first outing.
Hope that makes some sense.
Besides the excellent advice from everyone else, the only other word of wisdom I can add is "time". Seat time and what I call brain absorption time.
In my first year of autocrossing, I sucked big time at it. I was consistenly in the bottom 25%. I got frustrated but I kept going. This gave me the seat time.
The next season, after about 5 months without autocrossing (cold Canadian winters will do that) I went back and I was consistenly in the top 4 at each event. Nothing changed on my car. I think my brain needed the time to process everything I had learned the season before.
I rarely autocross now and focus on Solo 1 instead but I still find that if I'm on a new track, I am significantly faster and smoother the second time on it since I've had a chance to process all the data collected from the first outing.
Hope that makes some sense.
Honda-Tech Member
5 autocrosses is a pretty quick time to get frustrated in. Then again, I did that last season. Keep in mind that when you're new at this sort of thing... you WILL be inconsistent. You haven't had the seat-time and education to learn otherwise yet. You'll have an off-day on occasion. Keep your head up, remember you're out here to have fun and learn in the process. I know I drive a whole lot faster if I think it's going to be FUN. I've gotten stuck in the rut of trying too hard and it just digs itself deeper. Relax, smoothen your driving. As everyone has said... it'll feel slower but it's much more efficient, and efficiency is key to autocross. One must use all that they are given from their car, and you've got a limited amount of grip. When you exceed those bounds, you're going slower than you could be. For instance, at one autocross where I ran pretty quickly, I asked Karen Kraus drive my car while I was in the passenger seat. I made quite a number of observations
- there ARE some places where you need to jerk the wheel a bit, but you'll learn that over time. When you're new, you jerk the wheel in inopportune places
- long periods of squealing tires in turn-arounds can be bad. I'd take the turnaround in one big smooth sweeping arc. She'd segment it into a few tight turns and straightaways, basically. This lead to the next topic...
- Distance minimalization- sometimes it's fastest to travel the shortest line versus the optimal racing line. She travelled a much shorter distance through that turnaround, and the segmented turn allowed her to get the car aimed for the next straightaway very quickly. Her exit speed, and subsequently straightaway speed were higher than mine. At least, it sounded like the motor was turning more rpm.
- seat time seat time seat time- National level drivers are kindof scary. Sure, they're plenty fast in their cars but you expect that. What's scary is that they understand how to drive a course so well that they can get in any car and run it very close to its maximum potential. Karen's notorious for hopping into a person's car, and then squashing the owner's times. There's something to be said for understanding autocross courses and vehicle physics, and few things pound those in like seat time. School of course, the other option
- there ARE some places where you need to jerk the wheel a bit, but you'll learn that over time. When you're new, you jerk the wheel in inopportune places
- long periods of squealing tires in turn-arounds can be bad. I'd take the turnaround in one big smooth sweeping arc. She'd segment it into a few tight turns and straightaways, basically. This lead to the next topic...
- Distance minimalization- sometimes it's fastest to travel the shortest line versus the optimal racing line. She travelled a much shorter distance through that turnaround, and the segmented turn allowed her to get the car aimed for the next straightaway very quickly. Her exit speed, and subsequently straightaway speed were higher than mine. At least, it sounded like the motor was turning more rpm.
- seat time seat time seat time- National level drivers are kindof scary. Sure, they're plenty fast in their cars but you expect that. What's scary is that they understand how to drive a course so well that they can get in any car and run it very close to its maximum potential. Karen's notorious for hopping into a person's car, and then squashing the owner's times. There's something to be said for understanding autocross courses and vehicle physics, and few things pound those in like seat time. School of course, the other option
Honda-Tech Member
Quote:
I attended a track school by PDA at Pocono
Ewww! PDA and Pocono - two things I don't like about track driving!I attended a track school by PDA at Pocono
Matt
Thanks again to all the new replies. I can't wait for the next autox event! I'm going to go ride with some good drives and see what a good run feels like I had looked into the Evolution Driving school but I had just missed the one in my area. I'll be sure to catch it next time it rolls around.
Honda-Tech Member
Geratol, I completely know how you feel. Looking at the stats, at least you did much better than me. This last event I did horribly! I know where I went wrong, but this post has been very helpful in making me realize other things. I really need to ride with an experienced driver to see how a course is really driven. Thanks for posting!
New User
Quote:
Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed.
That's VERY true! I've never really thought of it that way, but it's totally true. Very often, turning on a tighter radius but slower is much better than a larger radius but travelling faster. I guess it has a lot to do with how tight an autox course is set up. You don't get much time to change directions and the wider you end up, the less time and space you have to turn for the next cone and it usually ends up in overdriving the car. At a road course, it is really to keep as much speed as possible, whenever... Autocrossing is a totally different mindset from roadracing. On a road course, you want to maximize speed at all times. This usually means you need to drive farther in order to get a good exit speed.