Last weekend I was talking to one of the ITA CRX guys and he suggested using Honda ATF in the gearbox as opposed to the MTF I'm now using... If I remember, he said it had a different viscosity that made it better to handle race conditions...

Does this sound right to anyone?

 

Maybe they had automatics?

I've never heard of anyone using ATF (automatic transmission fluid??) in a manual car..

 

I think he thinks you're getting too fast so the trickery is starting . J/K
I've never heard of that either, but sometimes I don't hear so good. IMHO, stick with Honda MTF.

 

My M3 specifically asks for ATF in the manual transmission but I would't put it it in a Honda that calls for something else from the factory. Best bets RedLine MTL or Honda's own blend (MTF I think). They are good, safe and not going to give up any performance.

 

I have always been told by my good friend that Honda MTF is IT. Don't use nuthin else but Honda MTF. If you were to use anything else you'd either regret it or be no further ahead than if you'd just stuck to Honda MTF, so I'd just stick with Honda MTF from the start and not deviate. Sure you can always buy a new gearbox or replace the broken parts, and then switch back to Honda MTF, but that's a big pain in the butt and kinda unnecessary considering you've been told to just stick to Honda MTF. Naturally you're looking for an edge, or you want to take advantage of every legal enhancement you can, but using something other than Honda MTF is probably not the right thing to do. I think you should just use Honda MTF and brake later.

Scott, who recommends Honda MTF...and uses it himself...and urges others to use it too, unless they're using special parts that require a different gearbox oil - which they shouldn't be...they should only use parts that are compatible with Honda MTF, so that they can use Honda MTF...like they should be...

 

I have heard the same thing Scott just said.

A really knowledgeable guy at the EXPO told me never to use anything but.

 

You're right... I can continue to abuse the tranny with the stuff I'm using now...

John, I'll ask Curt what he was talking about and forward any info on this...

 

Never heard of the ATF thing in a Honda. Only for my BMW (and when I read that I was pretty amazed, but whatever...).

Pete E. told me Honda MTF is the stuff. I used Redline MTL in my trans for its whole life (from 1000 miles)...Pete and I were both impressed with the condition of the syncros. So I say you can't lose with either.

 

I ran ATF in my rx7 and it was fine.. I wouldnt hesitate to run it if my manual tranny was acting stupid...

I dont think its bad... just different

 

I use a mixture of ATF Dextron(1/3), Ford friction modifier, and Gear oil 80w-90 (2/3) in my trans w/Kaaz. Worked good so far....3 years this April.

If you have a stock Honda trans with a stock LSD or Quaife LSD, I would only run the Honda MTF though.

 

My RX7 and Saturn both called for ATF.

*shrug*

 

i may be suffering from whiplash. i have always heard honda's take 30 wt. motor oil in the mt. i haven't heard "must use honda mtf". i've missed the boat before.
last two years racing i have used mobil "1" syn. 30 wt.: no problems, always feels good! i also consider myself hard on transmissions. i will check the factory manual when i get home and re-post.

 

my dad has always used motor oil in hondas w/o any issues.

but i'll stick to honda MTF.

 

Lubrication Points
transmission manual API Service Grade: SF or SG
SAE Viscosity: 10 W - 30 or 10 W - 40

it's just what the good book says. i don't mean to say other things can't be used or one shouldn't use MTF.

 

I went to pick up some MTF from the acura dealer, they told me they dont have any and they use motor oil, and they even showed me the container with it in the shop. I didnt like what I saw there, so I went to the honda dealer, and told them. They told me that up until 5 or 6 years ago, they used motor oil, and honda sent out a service bulletin about their new mtf and all (well, most. . .) dealers use that now. I've changed tranny fluid in my hondas 5 or 6 times, and all I use is honda MTF, havent had any problems, and the fluid always comes out just as good as it went in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I went to pick up some MTF from the acura dealer, they told me they dont have any and they use motor oil.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same thing happened to me at the local Honda dealer.
Asked for MTF and the guy was like "Just use 10w-30".

Anybody know what Honda MTF consists of?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My RX7 called for ATF.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh, the 1st gen? Pretty sure it calls for regular 90W (or thereabouts) gear oil and everybody I've spoken to is using Redline or some other synthetic gear oil.

 

I use MTF only now. I tried the Redline stuff, and had real problems with the LSD. It is a clutch type, and made grinding noises as the clutches would slip. Then I switched to MTF, and then the operation went back to normal again. It was a shame to drain $30 worth of fresh fluid, but I guess I learned something at the same time. Honda MTF is pretty good stuff.

 

Greg,

Have you caught Bonforte syndrome? We're just tyring to help you find your missing two seconds a couple hundreths at a time. The Dodge transverse engined tranys that weren't VW's called for ATF in the factory manual.

There is very little sliding action in a transverse box that only requires a limited amount of lubrication. ATF will cause the box to be noisier, which is why most factory manuals call for heavier weight lube. Same reason they put in big gushy bushings.

If the hurdle is to hard to overcome, try a low viscosity Red line. It didn't work in Jim's rocket because the LS clutch plates are very fickle to the lube choice.

Bottom line is spinning the goods through thick oil is robbing you all of some of your missing two seconds.

 

Good point Rick. BTW, welcome!

Greg- I have some NIB (New in bottle) Redline that has your name on it. I will bring it to the track this weekend if you want to try it, it is yours.

Jim

 

ATF in manual cars is very common in automotive world, just not with Hondas. I guess it's cuz of their history with motorcycle trannies that bathe in the same oil as the engine that they stuck with the same desing requiring reg motor oil. They work, shift great and last forever so they must be doing something right...

 

Slightly OT, but this just caught my attention.

Hondas require something along the lines of a 10W-30 oil for the gearbox? My VW uses 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil (eg, Redline MT-90). It's shared between the diff and the gearbox. The factory says to not use something too thin as it will lead to excessive and accelerated synchro wear. Even 75W-80 is considered "too thin."

-Adam

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JHill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good point Rick. BTW, welcome!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh great! Rick's here... Hey you were in the truck when Curt was talking about the ATF. So what's the deal? (And no, I'm not turning into a Bonforte wannabe... I can't afford it!)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JHill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Greg- I have some NIB (New in bottle) Redline that has your name on it. I will bring it to the track this weekend if you want to try it, it is yours.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure, I'll give it a shot... I'm working on seeing how far the syncros can go before I rebuild, so anything may help. Thanks, Jim!

Greg

 

I like the superlight shockproof better than the mtl, with the mtl i still was scratching going into 5th soon after warmup, i have no such issues (any really) with the shockproof. Just my .02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JAMES "A" &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lubrication Points
transmission manual API Service Grade: SF or SG
SAE Viscosity: 10 W - 30 or 10 W - 40

it's just what the good book says. i don't mean to say other things can't be used or one shouldn't use MTF. </TD></TR></TABLE>

API specs have changed since then, and motor oils can't contain as much ZDDP as they used to, because it harms catalytic converters if the engine burns any oil. ZDDP is an additive which protects parts under extreme pressure, such as gears. Hence Honda now distributes and recommends their own MTF, rather than current motor oils. If you checked a more recent service manual for a car with the same transmission, you would find Honda MTF to be specified, with 10W-30 to be used only temporarily if MTF is unavailable.