how reliable is h23 vtec?
 

i wanna know from your experience or what you know for a fact about the reliability on the frankenstein h23 vtec? is it worth doing?

Re: how reliable is h23 vtec? (PreLudexSi)
 

A lot of guys have broken cranks, spun bearings, and popped timing belts with the h23 vtec. But there are a handful of people out there that have successfully pulled this hybrid off... that's because they did their research and did not take any short cuts through the process.

Personally, I would just sell the h23, buy a h22, p&p the head, add a jun 3 valve-train with cams and call it a day.

If you take care in building it, I really don't see a problem with it. Then again, I was raised around stroker motors and particularly like this type of motor.

Re: how reliable is h23 vtec? (PreLudexSi)
 

i have the h23 vtec it kinda scars people and the call me crazy...stupid non intelligent personell that don't know about cars. i love the h23 vtec. it works for me. slight electrical problem with it in the begining but now running boost through it and it seems to love it. if you do it correctly it's worth it. but if not sure about it just go all h22.

If you dont rev it too high, in theory its supposd to hold out. I haven't heard of anybody blowing their H23 vtec due to crank without ever having gone over 7200 RPM. (stock H22 redline ?)

Re: how reliable is h23 vtec? (92preludeSIwp)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92preludeSIwp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have the h23 vtec it kinda scars people and the call me crazy...stupid non intelligent personell that don't know about cars. i love the h23 vtec. it works for me. slight electrical problem with it in the begining but now running boost through it and it seems to love it. if you do it correctly it's worth it. but if not sure about it just go all h22. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd agree with this person.... You really need to do some research and have a fully built motor for that....because just stock h23vtec your bearings will go out soon and a new block will be needed..... In the long run it will eventually start to wear our faster than a H22. I had a H23vtec and spun a bearing.... so I went with h22 all the way... its great now but without the tq.

They are as reliable as the builder.

Re: (19924ws)
 

so true about the reliable part. if you don't do it correctly then you could be SOL. if you go with the h23 vtec then make sure it's done correctly find some people who have it in the area and see where they got it done and then get to know the people. or just try it your self and if have any questions at all pm or email me.

Re: (92preludeSIwp)
 

Well, after meeting my first Ricer ever...and now understanding their mental that revving the motor higher is better...I now understand why so many H23VTECs have failed.

Build the H23VTEC and don't rev it past 6500...you should be fine.

Re: (AndyD)
 

but AndyD, see then you have to tune the vtec down a bit (when it kicks on) so you get full power out of it, i have the h23vtec and i can rev to 8500 no problems, now none of my internals are stock, and i have put almost 40k on this motor. and when and if it blows i will build me a new h23vtec. i am only 17 and i run it pretty hard alot....i feel the need for speed. muhahaha

Re: (92preludeSIwp)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92preludeSIwp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> now none of my internals are stock,</TD></TR></TABLE>
what crank are you using then https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

how often do you rev past 8k?

What would kicking the Vtec down ,have to do with getting full power out of it?

Re: (AndyD)
 

I have over 15,000 on my h23vtec(beater) hard miles also. I use a P72ecu and shift the car at 8K and have been with no problems as of yet. So I think its fine from mypersonal experiance. The setup has been in the car for over a year. I have had a twoh23vtec motors brought to me which have locked up or spun a bearing and both car left the oil orface in the block https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif which should be removed because they are in the head of the 22 but in the block of the 23 dunno if that is the full problem but i am sure it didnt help any.

Re: (md23vtec)
 

H23VTEC + P72 + Hi Revs + 10k miles = below picture.

No, I didn't build it.....I bought the car with the blown engine for cheap after the previous owner subjected the poor car to this. I'm rebuilding - not with the H23vtec. Just buy an H22.

http://www.phil2000.webspacesales.co...oken_crank.jpg

Re: (phil2000)
 

first of all if you dont know what you are doing and are not mechanicaly sound. why in the world would you attempt to run H23-V. if you build it right and take care of it you should be all set. H22 oil pump and oil squirters protect your internals alot better than h23 stock. balancing cranck and shaving it down for thicker bearings, eliminates more chances of spun bearings. and reving high is not the way to make reliable power with big dissplacement. if i hear another person saying 6500 rpm is a good redline i would tell them to shut up before i strangle them because they have never owned one. ideal rev i beleive should be around 7200-7400. i rev to 7400 myself running stock p13 at the moment. make sure you have h22 oil pump and oil squirters and you build the damn thing right. these kind of revs are only good with stock cams because you have to rev higher to make power with them. higher lift cams are the solution to make power and lower your redline. people that drive h23-v daily, and take it to the track sometimes should have no prob with revs around 7200. lowering the redline would be for more agressive people that like high revs all the time https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif . H23-V is only as reliable as the person that builds right and takes care of it.

Re: (H23vtecEG)
 

agreed i still take mine to 8k lol only cost me a head gaskit kit to put the thing together still on stock bottom end with a j-spec head i had layin around. the bottom end has 158 on it not and was around143 when i got the car for 800 bucks https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (phil2000)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phil2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.phil2000.webspacesales.co...oken_crank.jpg </TD></TR></TABLE>

That picture seriously disturbes me. http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif

Re: (phil2000)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phil2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H23VTEC + P72 + Hi Revs + 10k miles = below picture.

No, I didn't build it.....I bought the car with the blown engine for cheap after the previous owner subjected the poor car to this. I'm rebuilding - not with the H23vtec. Just buy an H22.

http://www.phil2000.webspacesales.co...oken_crank.jpg </TD></TR></TABLE>

WHOA DUDE! That looks just like mine!! https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=441374

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...9/fc83240f.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...e/fc8324fa.jpg

https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif only lasted 7000 miles

This was built by my current engine builder for my h22a as well. He is an excellent engine builder as you can see by my power numbers and this engine has already hit nearly 20000 miles. I don't fault him for what happened, h23 is not meant to rev high. For those that rev to 8000-8500 it's only a matter of time. Possibly your crank is strong and that's good, in my case it wasn't

Knife-edging was probably not the smartest thing in the world either.

Re: (satan_srv)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WHOA DUDE! That looks just like mine!!
https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif only lasted 7000 miles

This was built by my current engine builder for my h22a as well. He is an excellent engine builder as you can see by my power numbers and this engine has already hit nearly 20000 miles. I don't fault him for what happened, h23 is not meant to rev high. For those that rev to 8000-8500 it's only a matter of time. Possibly your crank is strong and that's good, in my case it wasn't

Knife-edging was probably not the smartest thing in the world either. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hah....yeah I have a main cap split in half just like that too https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

And somehow I don't think it was the knife-edging that did you in......yours broke in the same spot as mine, doesn't look like the material you took off it caused any stress concentrators or anything. What do you think?

I still maintain my opinion that there has to be a resonant frequency around 8k rpm; they both snapped right near the center maincap

screw it im gonan do it lol. where is a write up on this swap?

Re: (satan_srv)
 

Thanks for sharing these pics guys!

This is exaclty why my H23 VTEC Type S will have a 7600 RPM redline, regardless of the powerband.

:-)
Jeff

Re: (LudeyKrus)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still maintain my opinion that there has to be a resonant frequency around 8k rpm; they both snapped right near the center maincap</TD></TR></TABLE>
I also strongly side with that opinion, that and the fact that the cranks are obviously different in design, or better worded, the H23 cranks were NOT designed for high RPM use.

Re: (Cottonwoodz)
 

if you turn down vtec (when it kicks in ) and you redline at lets say 6800 then you only us it from 6200 to 6800 you aren't getting your full power band usage from that you can still make power past 6800 so if you tune the vtec down to kick in a 58 then you will have a better power band.

Re: (SKDRCR)
 

it is a stock crank but i have balanced it and i have grinded it down for better bearings, so there for it really isn't stock any more sorry for the confusion. i used to rev to 8000-8500 all the time, but that was when i just finished it and i was testing it out, but i mean i know have just over 40k on it now, and i can still hit 8300 on it did it yesterday. just to see if i could. when i first finished it i would actually bounce it off red line and hit 9053, v-afc told me. i have yet to have a prob, with mine, sorry for idiots that don't know there crap, and blow there engine, o yeah starting Dec, 18 drag stage 3 goes in, i'll fill you in on that later. we shall see how it all works.

Re: (AndyD)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Build the H23VTEC and don't rev it past 6500...you should be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.

Re: (2point6)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Mine gets reved to 8000 daily.... and it has an even more radical stroke than the h23. Build it right and you will be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But you also have a forged or welded custom crank, don't ya? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

It's not the R/S ratio or anything, although that's not too good on the bearings. It's the stock crank's design. I don't believe it should be revved to 8k PERIOD, no matter what prep. was done. I think it can be revved a bit past 7k if balanced, but that's just my opinion.

To make the extra power this engine is made to produce, you must rev it past 6500

Re: (92preludeSIwp)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92preludeSIwp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you turn down vtec (when it kicks in ) and you redline at lets say 6800 then you only us it from 6200 to 6800 you aren't getting your full power band usage from that you can still make power past 6800 so if you tune the vtec down to kick in a 58 then you will have a better power band. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I still dont get your point.. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif

Well, I thought that since the stroked motor would be pushing more air, the VTEC xover point could be dropped a bit.

Re: how reliable is h23 vtec? (PreLudexSi)
 

Since you in Cali....send a email or call up Jeff @ ImportBuilders. I know he used to have (dunno if he still does) have a H23 Vtec that he built up and from what i've heard, running strong still.

If you build it right and do it right the first time, it'll be fine.

Re: (LudeyKrus)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But you also have a forged or welded custom crank, don't ya? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif
</TD></TR></TABLE>

My crank is a rewelded h22 crank. Just the rod journals were altered not the mains. As far as the crank breakage pictured above, there are differences in the material make up in the cranks (h22 vs. h23) as well as the counterweighting design. This may have contributed to the damage, but looking at how discolored the main caps are and the crank (in both cases) as well leads me to believe that there was a possible oiling issue. When I have built these engines, I have noticed that the oil clearance is tighter on the center journal. I usually line bore all of the journals to the same size and run slightly "looser" clearances to promote oil flow. I also shim the oil pump to increase pressure... so maybe that is why I have few problems with this set-up. I guess I am just going to have to break a crank myself to get it through my thick skull, but I feel 8K is reasonable. Now, you must consider as well what cams will be used, because with stroker engines like this, they work better with higher lift and less duration, so that will decrease the rev range itself. If the engine only makes power to 7500 RPM, then why rev it beyond that?

But the thing is i'm pretty sure the H22 and H23 cranks are made from the same materials and processes.....see my thread about it.

The only big difference is the counterweight design, from the looks of it. If properly balanced, I don't see how things could be much different revvin the H23 crank to 8k as compared to swingin the H22 to 8k.

Re: (LudeyKrus)
 

That is why I am leaning towards an oiling issue...

Re: (2point6)
 

but see the thing is that you really don't have an oil issuw wuth the h23 vtec. at all at least i have yet to have a prob.

Personally, I think that H23VTEC is a good idea, but kinda sketchy at this point. It's worked for some people, not for others, and no one really can point out why certain people are having their engines fail even though they build them rather well.

I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.

Re: (explosive)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by explosive &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally, I think that H23VTEC is a good idea, but kinda sketchy at this point. It's worked for some people, not for others, and no one really can point out why certain people are having their engines fail even though they build them rather well.

I just think that a stock H23 bottom end is not going to take high revs. If you do build up the bottom end though, it's pretty much like an LS/VTEC that's built, it can rev higher more safely. IMO, H22 will always be my engine of choice, but for those that want the torque of the H23, more power to ya.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

Re: (Cottonwoodz)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What do yeah mean torque???? The h22 has more peak torque then then the h23........
What you mean is LOWend torque, which dont win you races. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, don't get after me man, I am clearly a bigger fan of the H22...I mean I put one of those in my del Sol, JDMH22...I mean Cottonwoodz.

Some people like the whole low end torque kinda thing for daily driving I guess? Personally the H22 pulls fine from 2k on IMO, but then again, that's probably because I have the thing in a lighter car.

Re: (explosive)
 

what kinda numbers are you running with the h22 in a del slow? i have run plenty of h22 with my h23 vtec and pissed on them. o well i like the beast personally.

Re: (92preludeSIwp)
 

A fully built H22a can make just as much low end torque as an H23 VTEC.

Re: (satan_srv)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A fully built H22a can make just as much low end torque as an H23 VTEC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A fully built H23 VTEC can make more torque AND horsepower than a fully built H22 https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

And peak HP is NOT all that matters in drag racing. If you have a motor w/ good low end torque and good hp and one w/ equal HP but poor low-end torque, then the first motor will almost always win.