I haven't posted here in a while, but I thought I'd share this with the Honda-tech community:

http://forums.evans-tuning.com...itive

I have a few more pics I have to add tomorrow as well as a bit more text, but it's essentially complete.




Modified by boosted hybrid at 8:09 AM 11/18/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I haven't posted here in a while, but I thought I'd share this with the Honda-tech community:

http://www.boosted-hybrid.com/viewtopic.php?t=326

I have a few more pics I have to add tomorrow as well as a bit more text, but it's essentially complete.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Damn. This is some really good info. Thank you very much for sharing.

 

Very nice, I saved the whole thing.

It will come in handy when I build my gsr block someday. Its nice to finally understand how to use plastigauge as well.

 

He is freaking great with cars

 

Looks good, thanks for the info.

 

Great site man....i just registered. tons of info.

 

One of the best write-ups ever.

 

Impressive. Much respect.

 

I read all of the way through it I feel smarter now

But it still brought up some questions.

So stretching bolts is just a differnt way of torquing them? I always thought it was used in conjunction with normal torquing procedures.
Is this only done on the mains and the rods?

Also about the piston rings.
When you install them does it matter wich side the gaps are facing(intake ,exhaust,timing belt ,dizzy)?
When the pistions are installed are the ring gaps next to each other or on opposite sides of the pistion?IE. one on the exhaust side and one on the intake.
And when you gap the rings does the feeler gauge fit snug ,IE. if it was just the to pieces of metal(.0015&.0004) and you let go of them the ring would hold them in place? or is just beyond that where there is no or very little friction when you slide the gauge in there?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid. Dont hammer me. But I really dont know and I would like to do a build of my own some time in the future.

 

::saves to favorites:: thanks yo!

 

VERY nice writeup! Exactly what I would love to read.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperDuperEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">::saves to favorites:: thanks yo!</TD></TR></TABLE>

ditto nice write up..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by func-tion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read all of the way through it I feel smarter now

But it still brought up some questions.

So stretching bolts is just a differnt way of torquing them? I always thought it was used in conjunction with normal torquing procedures.
Is this only done on the mains and the rods?

Also about the piston rings.
When you install them does it matter wich side the gaps are facing(intake ,exhaust,timing belt ,dizzy)?
When the pistions are installed are the ring gaps next to each other or on opposite sides of the pistion?IE. one on the exhaust side and one on the intake.
And when you gap the rings does the feeler gauge fit snug ,IE. if it was just the to pieces of metal(.0015&.0004) and you let go of them the ring would hold them in place? or is just beyond that where there is no or very little friction when you slide the gauge in there?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid. Dont hammer me. But I really dont know and I would like to do a build of my own some time in the future.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stretch gauging is the real way you are supposed to torque down the rod bolts. When a bolt has deflection under torque, the deflection amount and torque are on a semi-linear scale meaning if you know the torque you should know the deflected amount, or vice versa. What stretch gauging the rod bolts does is allow for dead on torque spec by knowing the precise amount each bolt deflected. This is more accurate than using a torque wrench b/c of the resolution, or error associated with them (Usually are accurate to within +/1 3-4 ft-lbs). You stretch gauge the rod bolts only, main bolts you cannot since there is no way to measure the deflected length of the bolt due to one side being put into the block.

With the position of the rings I left that part out of the article by accident, that is one of the errors I did when I wrote it yesterday. You go by the end gap of the rings, some builders go with 90 degrees apart, and others go with the OEM recommend ring gap positioning. I did the OEM positioning, I'll have the pics of the schematic hosted later on today along with the other pics that are missing.

With the feeler gauge to measure the end gap you want slight drag. You dont want the feeler gauge being held up within the gap like you are describing. With a slight drag I mean that you can "feel" the gauge rubbing the sides of the rings, but able to move through the gap fairly easily.

I wouldnt flame you, questions are good. Its the only way that you learn, and engine builders dont like the share their techniques so there is no good resources to get information on the internet.

Thanks for the compliment guys. I have how to build a d-series block coming at the end of this week. It took me many hours to compile the pics for the article, and 4-5 hours to write the thing. Glad that people appreciate it.

 

DAMN! awesome write up Jeff

 

Nice Jeff.

 

Thanks for answering my questions.

Is the device you used to stretch the bolts just a normal dial indicator? Like the kind a machinist would use? Im gonna get one for my build.
Sorry for the biggass pic.



I checked my helms manual and looked at the ring gap positioning. It just says not to position them on the thrust surfaces or in line with the pins. Does it matter wich side the gaps are on though(intake exhaust).

You mentioned gapping the rings for your hp goals. I didnt really understand that. Do you run more gap for more psi because of the heat so you have more room for expansion?

Im looking foward to your d series build because thats what I will be applying all of this knowlege to.
Thanks


Modified by func-tion at 4:51 PM 3/29/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stretch gauging is the real way you are supposed to torque down the rod bolts. When a bolt has deflection under torque, the deflection amount and torque are on a semi-linear scale meaning if you know the torque you should know the deflected amount, or vice versa. What stretch gauging the rod bolts does is allow for dead on torque spec by knowing the precise amount each bolt deflected. This is more accurate than using a torque wrench b/c of the resolution, or error associated with them (Usually are accurate to within +/1 3-4 ft-lbs). You stretch gauge the rod bolts only, main bolts you cannot since there is no way to measure the deflected length of the bolt due to one side being put into the block.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice write-up!!

Yeah, torque specs are based on estimated bolt stretch, which is why the type of lubrication you use when torquing makes a huge difference. The only true way to preload bolts is to measure stretch when installing them. Of course, you can't do that with every bolt, but areas such as conrods, you can.

 

thats awesome!

 

nice thread!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by func-tion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for answering my questions.

Is the device you used to stretch the bolts just a normal dial indicator? Like the kind a machinist would use? Im gonna get one for my build.

I checked my helms manual and looked at the ring gap positioning. It just says not to position them on the thrust surfaces or in line with the pins. Does it matter wich side the gaps are on though(intake exhaust).

You mentioned gapping the rings for your hp goals. I didnt really understand that. Do you run more gap for more psi because of the heat so you have more room for expansion?

Im looking foward to your d series build because thats what I will be applying all of this knowlege to.
Thanks


Modified by func-tion at 4:51 PM 3/29/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is a pic of the stretch gauge tool that I used:



The only difference between the rod gauge stretch tool and the machinist guage that you had pictured is the body which is made to hold the gauge against the top and bottom dimples of the rod. You can make something yourself, I choose to spend the 85.00 for the special tool either way it does the same thing measuring the deflection.

The ring gap picture I am going to host tonight has the proper orientation, showing the intake side of the piston as a reference this is the way I set mine up.

You always gap the rings according to your boost level and power level you are going to be running. The larger end gap relieves some cylinder pressure and temperature, and leaves room for expansion. Going to large on the ring gap will lower your compression per cylinder and let more blow-by through, partial throttle will suffer but at super high psi levels this is what you want to maintain safe end gap on the rings.

 

whoa that was awesome!

 

Awesome read..I feel a little smarter somehow..Great writeup ..

 

 

top notch stuff

 

Awesome write-up Jeff, best b-series write up that i have seen in my searches.. thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and expertise on the subject.. I know this will help me a lot when building my next b18c1..

Dan