Well, the day finally came today. I got hear project big block run!! I was expecting the worse as far as noise on this built motor as I have never heard one before. It was quiet!!! The valvetrain got a slight noise but nothing a valve adjustment can't fix and I was expecting some noise. It also makes it easier to hear these noises with stock exhaust.

Now, the issues and questions I have along with them.

It fired right up pretty much. We put little oil down each cylinder before doing the valve adjust ment to protect the rings. This caused it to take a little longer to start but eventually fired right up. We let it get to temp then shut it down. Upon lifting the car up for inspection, we noticed oil coming from the tranny housing cover. These pictures were really to show WHERE I am talking about not showing the leak.


The next thing to check is the oil pan gasket. It is most likely NOT this but at least we can make sure.
WE feel it is most likely the rear main seal. Whether it was not installed properly or wrong one, whatevery, I will find out. This is of course, someone else has an idea what it could be? It is for sure oil though. Also, this block was built by Endyn over 1 YEAR ago. Could the seal have dried out? I can't see that it being installed inproperly as I think it is pretty straight forward. NO?

For those that don't know, here is a rear main seal. Surrounds the crank keeping oil IN the block


Also, I searched and found this post. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=861931 I have this same setup. Anyone else heard of this flywheel causing this? I have this flywheel is why I am asking.

Next we noticed the plugs on cyl 2,3,4 were black like major oil covering. Cyl 1 was fine. At this point, the car had only idled and NEVER driven. After finally driving it for about 8 miles or so putting the motor under a load, this has since straightened itself out.....I think. It just needed a load to break itself in. BUT the car smokes a little bit. Is it just clearing everything out (from the oil we put in the cylinders) and will it eventually go away? I assume maybe it is just wearing itself in? The smoke was real bad at the beginning when we first started driving it but is pretty limited now. Still does a little even at idle. Smoke isn't blue or white though which is what was confusing me? Is it the crappy ND oil causing some of this?

Here is a picture of Cyl #4 plug which was the worst before I put a load on it.



I have Non-Detergent oil in it now. I am just not comfortable using this stuff. How long do I have keep this crap in there??? We have to drain the oil next time we change the oil pan gasket so I think I am going to put in 5w30 now that I have put some miles on it. Good idea or no? Stick it out for a little longer on the ND stuff?

We also have a frigging alternator issue but this is the least of my worries right now. I could care less about that. I got a brand new alternator since mine is 12 years old+. Well, the thing makes aweful noises. Probably goign to shove it up Advance Auto's **** once everything else is straightened out.

Well, that is all for now. I appreciate everyone's feedback in advance and sorry for the novel.

Brad


Modified by ladysman at 10:40 PM 6/13/2004

 

it may not be the rear main, when you pull the oil pan off, inspect the area where those studs come out of the rear main support closely. a lot of people leave those washers in there out of the oe gasket and it causes a leak because the gasket doesnt seal.

 

btw, the smoke will most likely stop once you completely seat the rings.

 

Yes the smoking problem should go away as you drive the car, if the motor was built right. As far as the rear main leaking, could be the oil pan gasket, rear main, or the cover that the rear main seal goes into. If there isn't the right amount of honda bond there, it will leak. But like you said, start with the oil pan gasket first and take it from there. Hope this helps

 

Are you talking the studs on the main seal housing. Washers? didn't even notice but when we pull the pan off, we can check.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you talking the studs on the main seal housing. Washers? didn't even notice but when we pull the pan off, we can check.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he's talking about the oil pan gasket. Some of the holes have small metal o-rings that can stick to the oil pan when removing the gasket.

 

Get it tuned right away before putting loads on the motor. Your tune could be way off and you are hurting the motor by loading it.
If the rear cover seal is bad, the oil will show up only in the inside of the bell housing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get it tuned right away before putting loads on the motor. Your tune could be way off and you are hurting the motor by loading it.
If the rear cover seal is bad, the oil will show up only in the inside of the bell housing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The tune is fine as I am using stock injectors and stock P28 map. I have the wideband hooked up and am watching it like a hawk. All is OK with that. Don't worry, I read ALL of your break in post.

Well, the oil is only in the bell housing as far as I know. I assume you mean rear main seal when you say "rear cover seal"?
Do these go bad like this? I mean this is a brand new motor.

 

Now my brother says it could be the groove in the crank too. I have no idea what he is talking about. Might be a domestic thing as he knows lots about those.

Anyone?

Edit, I just thought of something that I just posted on Endyn's forum as well. If I remember right (I don't have the original invoice with me so I will have to check), Larry put in a newer crank cause the one I sent him was toast. We kind of knew it wasn't in the best condition but he said he would take a look at it if it was usable. It wasn't so I believe he put a 96 or 98 crank in it. I just noticed the oil seal has different part numbers. Possiblility? How would I know which to use?

Here are the links to what I am talking about.
Part # 33 here (Notice there are 2 now)
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...L+PAN

And part number 27 here (This is for the Y8's) This
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...L+PAN

This is for the 96. It is a different #!!!
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...L+PAN

Now what the heck do I do?


Modified by ladysman at 12:58 PM 6/7/2004

 

glad to see its running dood!!!!!

d think with bigger displacement and stock injectors youll be running lean , id watch that. and as far as the nd oil , should have heat cycled the motor twice then drained it , i wouldnt drive on that crap.

im very interested in the crank situation good luck!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">glad to see its running dood!!!!!

d think with bigger displacement and stock injectors youll be running lean , id watch that. and as far as the nd oil , should have heat cycled the motor twice then drained it , i wouldnt drive on that crap.

im very interested in the crank situation good luck!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I added fuel to compensate. I know that isn't the issue as it is fine on the Wideband.

I am trying to find out for myself!!!

 

My mechanic was the one who did the install and replacemant. He said it was on the inner area where it bolts on. If this doesnt sound right then I forgot what he said 100%. He ground it down and fit w/ no further problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic_95_Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My mechanic was the one who did the install and replacemant. He said it was on the inner area where it bolts on. If this doesnt sound right then I forgot what he said 100%. He ground it down and fit w/ no further problems. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So the flywheel bolts were too long? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

I dont think it was the bolts. He said part of it was sticking out and slashed the seal. I didnt get a real good visual picture when he was telling me. So its even worse trying to describe it 2nd hand. Sorry.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civic_95_Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think it was the bolts. He said part of it was sticking out and slashed the seal. I didnt get a real good visual picture when he was telling me. So its even worse trying to describe it 2nd hand. Sorry.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the info. We will look into it.

 

Bump in case someone has other ideas.

 

Well for future reference for others, the SOHC VTEC blocks all use the same seal BUT the 92-95 civics have a different housing.

I ordered a new housing, gasket, dowel pin, etc. Plan is to put it on Saturday. I will keep everyone posted.

 

Well, I wanted to let everyone know it is fixed. The oil seal WAS NOT installed per the Helms manual hence the reason for the leak. The spec for the gap on the seal from the back cover to the seal is .01-.03. The actual measurement when we took it off was .11!!
The flywheel actually tore the seal open. Hence the massive leak. It was just tedious to do. I am not really mad as I probably should be. Just glad I could bring her home and not leak!!! The compression test made up for the anger. :wink:

Anyway, here are the pictures I am famous for. :;






From being to close to the flywheel, this happened.


Do you see how the seal is flush up against the housing? This is NOT a good thing! Hence the reason for "Mr. Leakage" stopping by.


Here is what a proper install should look like.


Just glad I could bring her home today. "Real" break-in begins.


Modified by ladysman at 10:23 PM 6/13/2004

 

Glad you got her all fixed up! The rear main seal is a BIG PITA if the engine is in the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Glad you got her all fixed up! The rear main seal is a BIG PITA if the engine is in the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, total about 5 hours. Just glad it is done. No leaks now.

 

Damn.....I'd be pissed
Glad you got it fixed though

 

I'm having the same rear main seal problem... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=894810

It started a few weeks after I replaced my tranny/Clutch/FW...I replaced it, and now a month later the oil is coming back. I really don't know what to do!

Here's a pic of my old seal:


I can't remember how I redid the 2nd one, but it looks like it may be flush with the plate...so who knows...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm having the same rear main seal problem... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=894810

It started a few weeks after I replaced my tranny/Clutch/FW...I replaced it, and now a month later the oil is coming back. I really don't know what to do!</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you put the new seal in, did you use the same housing? Also, did you make sure the seal was in spec?

Edit,
I just saw the above picture. From the looks of it, it was installed improperly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

When you put the new seal in, did you use the same housing? Also, did you make sure the seal was in spec?

Edit,
I just saw the above picture. From the looks of it, it was installed improperly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used the same housing...the seal in the picture was the old one...

If I am to replace this, should I get a new housing as well as new seal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I used the same housing...the seal in the picture was the old one...

If I am to replace this, should I get a new housing as well as new seal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you put the new one in, did you check the rear gap?
I doubt it is a housing but we wanted to make sure we didn't have to do this again so I changed everything including the dowel pins and studs. The buy who helped me works at Honda so I got a nice deal on parts.