did you ever put an oil press sending unit @ the feed of the turbo to confirm that you have proper press with the -4 and the -3? Just a thought... I agree with the latter that it looks like oil starvation.

I know that bullseye recommends to all of their customers to test the pressure @ the oil feed inlet to determine if any restrictors or different size feed lines are needed.

Hope you get this figured out.

 

Regardless of what actually happened, it should be noted that when I say some companies will use the oil line excuse no matter what, this instance proves it.

They should print a disclaimer on the box that honda oil pumps aren't recommended for their turbos.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it's complelely inconceivable that you are just an inexperienced moron who doesn't know as much as you think about turbocharging.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They are great at customer service...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then take notes.

 

my engine oil pressure gauge is fed from the same port using a tunertoys fitting, with 3 outlet, one to the factory oil pressure sensor, one to an autometer oil pressure sending unit, and the other to the turbo, via stealthmode 3an oil line, before that I had a earls 4an line. next thing I will hear is that tunertoys fitting is restricting the oil BS PTE is just pointing fingers. I <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So the moral of the story is actually run a restrictor to save the seals..
What is the reccomended oil press for this turbo?


Modified by rorik at 6:28 PM 6/22/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>
I called them and ask if I should run a restrictor and they said no, their turbos see 100 psi on v8's daily.
everyone with bad experience with them should come speak up.

 

Not to be in anyone's defense, but i do see some issues here.

1) based upon the pictures, that is DEFINATELY starved of oil, but looks as though its not coming from the oil feed, based upon the other information that you've presented

2) Definately not a "dirty oil" issue. Those show other symptoms

3) This looks like a return line issue, in which the oil is starved, and not some bad oil feed layout design. If you're using 90 degree AN fittings that are smaller than the -10AN, and is not a correct angle to be properly routed back to the pan using gravity, the turbo could be starved HORRIBLY. Many people pay WAY too much attention to the feed, worrying about restrictors and such, without first looking at oil pressure at the line, that they forget that the manner in which oil is returned to the oil pan is just as, if not MORE important than the feed. In this case, though it is possible you are more than responsible, Precision is charging over $800 for a new cartridge to more than likely discourage people from consistantly returning the unit for the same reason over and over and over again.

 

Im not bashing you I just dont understand how an oil return line that is not flowing properly could starve the turbo of oil.

I would think that if oil was backing up you would have a problem with too much oil in the turbo since its not draining properly and the car would smoke or potentially blow the seals out of the turbo.

 

I will try and post a pic of the return line I used, its not on the car anymore because I am waiting for a new turbo and topmount manifold which will have a different return.

 

interesting thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jakeiscool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">interesting thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I find it interesting that it has been now pointed out that it appears to be an oiling issue and yet we still blame the manufacturer. Which is why I asked if there was pics of the oil feed/ return as it was on the car. I mean yes precision probably could have handled the customer service of this a little better, if we take the OP's explination of events at face value.

However, it is too bad we dont get to hear precisions side of this situation as I dont believe they would dismiss you like this unless events transpired a little differently than stated. Although, I can see how they avoid forums and getting into a pissing match that will go no were productive with customers who seems to be ranting more than trying to find their problem.

Customer side of things of course was that they did everything right, the manufacturer is just out to screw them. As if that is their sole mission in life... to screw you out of your warranty. Go buy an ebay knockoff garrett turbo and see how much customer support and warranty you get. Hell trying to find a contact number for the manufacturer of one is probably a challenge alone.

 

replies like these is why this place is only good for turbo pictures.
almost everyone swinging from a ******* and think that every average member don't know what they are doing unless they pay a big name to do their installs. if you wan't me to reinstall the messed up turbo to prove to you that my oil setup is not at fault I can do that, but will that help me to get my turbo rebuilt for less than the price of a new one? I think not.
regardless of what the negatives, and bad mouthing. as I say I may know or have the equipment build a turbocharger, but I have the knowledge and skill to install one correctly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">replies like these is why this place is only good for turbo pictures.
almost everyone swinging from a ******* and think that every average member don't know what they are doing unless they pay a big name to do their installs. if you wan't me to reinstall the messed up turbo to prove to you that my oil setup is not at fault I can do that, but will that help me to get my turbo rebuilt for less than the price of a new one? I think not.
regardless of what the negatives, and bad mouthing. as I say I may know or have the equipment build a turbocharger, but I have the knowledge and skill to install one correctly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are taking this WAY too seriously when what many of us are trying to do is help with a situation with your vehicle so that if nothing else, the problem may be corrected for the next time. Considering that there are no additional photos, no further information about the car or how you set it up, and Precision cannot (or will not) respond to this thread, there's not much to go on here. Why create a thread about something in which no one knows may be the true cause. I don't think anyone is necessarily DEFENDING Precision, but many here are going as much as possible to look at this at all angles.

The truth is, we don't know what the hell happened, Period. Its not our car, nor do we drive it or see it everyday. But you're not going to get much helpful information or positive feedback with that type of e-attitude on a forum. Many here would simply say, Sorry that it happened, good luck with whatever you find, and go on about their day.

There are many factors that can contribute to the failure of a turbo, including the installer. No one is trying to put words in your mouth or give the impression that you don't know what you're doing. But to have that happen twice like that is very coincidental. To discount that posssibility of a user install error would be naive.


Modified by TheShodan at 11:14 AM 6/23/2008

 

if I were you I would check the oil feed line for any signs or evidence of blockage.

 

PTE is my competition and I have to actually take up for them on this one. Turbos don't just fail on their own.

99% of the failures on any unit are condition induced failures. When pulling a unit apart for inspection it is not hard to figure out the reason a failure happens. If they said it was lack of oil or oil starvation it is likely that.

One thing I noticed in your pictures is the rear journal bearing area looks like it has seen a good bit of heat.

When you are running the snot out of the unit on the road how long are you giving the unit to cool down?

Once they get heat soaked on long runs like what you are doing, they need a long cool down period. If you don't give the propper cool down period, the rear journal bearing area gets so hot it actually carbonizes the oil on the shaft and is like running sand paper on your shaft and rear journal bearing. This will cause any turbocharger to fail.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">replies like these is why this place is only good for turbo pictures.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yet you continue to post here...

It's obvious you are not going to listen to anyone unless they tell you that you were right and precision was wrong. Your hard headed, you burnt up your turbo by your own actions, and now your stuck with the bill. Deal with it and move on. The experts have voiced their opinion and we all know who's fault it really is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3) This looks like a return line issue, in which the oil is starved, and not some bad oil feed layout design. If you're using 90 degree AN fittings that are smaller than the -10AN, and is not a correct angle to be properly routed back to the pan using gravity, the turbo could be starved HORRIBLY. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Could you elaborate on this?

Assuming the turbo was actually good, (?) I think HiProfile might have been on to something when he mentioned crankcase pressure, but I don't understand how that could create the condition described/observed without the seals first going bad..unless that can cause the seals to go bad directly?
(If it can, to the o.p., what is your crank ventilation setup?)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One thing I noticed in your pictures is the rear journal bearing area looks like it has seen a good bit of heat.

When you are running the snot out of the unit on the road how long are you giving the unit to cool down?

Once they get heat soaked on long runs like what you are doing, they need a long cool down period. If you don't give the propper cool down period, the rear journal bearing area gets so hot it actually carbonizes the oil on the shaft and is like running sand paper on your shaft and rear journal bearing. This will cause any turbocharger to fail.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah.. I noticed that as well. I failed to mention that in my last post. Its as though he would boost a good amount of pressure for an extended period of time, then stop off a the store to get a soda with a hot shut down... hmm..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scotty Dosent Know &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not bashing you I just dont understand how an oil return line that is not flowing properly could starve the turbo of oil.

I would think that if oil was backing up you would have a problem with too much oil in the turbo since its not draining properly and the car would smoke or potentially blow the seals out of the turbo. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No offense taken at all. Though some bluing can occur from that condition, but he showed no symptoms of smoke or other fume problems. I humbly recant that statement.

 

instead of me reinstalling the turbo to prove that my oil supply and return is not at fault. here is a mockup of my return line the way it was on the car straight shot from the turbo to the oil pan.

not letting the turbo cool down properly.

this I can take responsibilty for, I have a turbo timer but I only let it run for 30 seconds. maybe its part the problem and I will change it in the future. but still does not warrant PTE blaming everything on oil starvation.
for everyone who gets offended of my last comment , I get offended when someone insult my intelligence so thats when I get offensive. sorry.

 

[QUOTE=rudebwoy] not letting the turbo cool down properly.

this I can take responsibilty for, I have a turbo timer but I only let it run for 30 seconds. maybe its part the problem and I will change it in the future. but still does not warrant PTE blaming everything on oil starvation.
[QUOTE]

30 seconds is not near good enough when you have been running the car real hard at high speed. It will take more like 5 minutes.
You are not only having to pull the heat from the turbo you are also having to cool the entire engine from it being heat soaked. We see this alot on road race cars.

They must have mis-diagnosed the problem which in this case is easy to do. The damage looks almost the same unless you know all the details. The oil cooks to the shaft and when the car is re fired it damages the shaft just like you had trash going through the system.

 

so in the future I will concentrate more on letting the car idle down more than 30 seconds after each drive, or track pulls.

its now shocking to me that my turbos were dying because of lack of turbo timer use. but if thats the case I lost.
even though I still think precision could have sold me the repair parts atleast for a reasonable price.

 

Just be thankful PTE took care of the ones they did. This cost them a lot of money also.


This type of turbo damage is not normally covered by any turbo manufacturer.

 

I dont think using the turbo timer is the problem, I dont even have one. I usually drive the last few miles calmly and then let the car idle for about 30 secs before turning it off. No problems there, except for my boosting issue, but thats another thing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so in the future I will concentrate more on letting the car idle down more than 30 seconds after each drive, or track pulls.

its now shocking to me that my turbos were dying because of lack of turbo timer use. but if thats the case I lost.
even though I still think precision could have sold me the repair parts atleast for a reasonable price.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


I think you are doing everything right with your oiling system, but you said you drive the autobahn and the 200kph you posted is = to 125mph so I would imagine you cruise at those speeds, so by that I would say you need a much longer than 30 second cool down, I always tried to around 10 minutes of easy slow driving after a good highway romp with my hood popped to help every thing cool down then idle for a few minutes. I would usually get close to home, pop the hood at a light and cruise 30-35 mph for the last few minutes home then idle in the driveway

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flashmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think using the turbo timer is the problem, I dont even have one. I usually drive the last few miles calmly and then let the car idle for about 30 secs before turning it off. No problems there, except for my boosting issue, but thats another thing </TD></TR></TABLE>

as many set ups that i've had i never used a turbo timers...i did the same as the person above me said.

Maybe the seals went bad, poured tons of oil out through the exhuast therefore starving the turbo and bearing going bad?

 

I am glad that I am getting some insight on my problem so in the future my turbo will last longer.
hard driving requires longer idle time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rudebwoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am glad that I am getting some insight on my problem so in the future my turbo will last longer.
hard driving requires longer idle time.</TD></TR></TABLE> What I would like to know is, why is it that the precision turbo that you are running on your car right now that I rebuilt over a year ago is running perfect? I had a problem with that turbo smoking and tremendous shaft play. I ordered a rebuild kit for it, rebuilt it and it still hasn't failed yet. After running it on my car and now on rudebwoy's car. I bought a new precision turbo before I gave the one I had to rudebwoy and the new one took a dump on me after 2 months of running it. I don't understand.

Ok let's see here:
Bought precision turbo and it took a dump on me after a few months
Rebuilt it and it's sstill running perfect to this day even on rudebwoy's car
Bought a new precision turbo and it took a dump on me after 2 months

Can someone please explain. Thanks!