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Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
I know there are threads talking about turbo builds but I need to know specifically about one aspect of the build. I’m already looking to pretty much have my whole B18b1 motor rebuilt with forged rods and pistons. I see all these options for pistons with a larger bore than the stock 81mm but I really don’t think having my block stripped and sent out to be bored is really within my budget or time right now. I know there are forged pistons that come in stock size with a slight change in compression. My question is are there any serious drawbacks in terms of wear and damage to the rest of the motor if I put together a mild turbo build (no crazy power, maybe 200-250hp to start) with the stock bore? Or is it just as reliable? Assuming I have the proper gaskets, bearings, and head studs of course. Any feedback is appreciated |
re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Boring out is nice if you can afford it. Gives you a perfectly round cylinder wall again, and 100% new surface to set in the new piston rings with.
However, if the block/engine is otherwise healthy when you're taking it apart, you can get away with doing as little as a ball hone in the cylinder walls, keep the stock bore, and after confirming your P2W gap and ring orientation on the new pistons you're good to go. I wouldn't worry about it, especially for your intended power goals. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Boring to standard sizes (0.5 mm and 1.0 mm over) doesn't really gain you much displacement, so people aren't doing it for that reason. It's mainly to start with fresh, straight cylinder walls that are sized perfectly to the pistons you are going to run. It really doesn't add that much to the cost of the block work, if you're getting other machine work done already. Here's an example of what my local shop charges (receipt is from about 1 year ago) - not sure how much just a hone is...maybe $30 or so? In the grand scheme, if the engine needed it, I'd just go ahead and have it bored.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...9c05121dfe.png |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
You don't need forged pistons/rods to meet your horsepower goals. If your engine is healthy bolt the turbo kit on and tune. If your engine is in need of a rebuild I bet it would be cheaper and faster to source a new short/long block.
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by simike
(Post 51876009)
You don't need forged pistons/rods to meet your horsepower goals. If your engine is healthy bolt the turbo kit on and tune. If your engine is in need of a rebuild I bet it would be cheaper and faster to source a new short/long block.
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
if you are only shooting for 200-250, you should leave the engine stock. im at 320whp with a stock b18b block and have been for a year now. if you cant afford a couple hundred for machine work, how will you afford a set of pistons and rods?
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by simike
(Post 51876009)
You don't need forged pistons/rods to meet your horsepower goals. If your engine is healthy bolt the turbo kit on and tune. If your engine is in need of a rebuild I bet it would be cheaper and faster to source a new short/long block.
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by k20z1ej1
(Post 51876087)
if you are only shooting for 200-250, you should leave the engine stock. im at 320whp with a stock b18b block and have been for a year now. if you cant afford a couple hundred for machine work, how will you afford a set of pistons and rods?
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876131)
I honestly don’t know how much machining would cost where I’m at because I don’t know if my mechanic even does it. But it’s also a matter of reliability. I’d rather have a refurbished, rebuilt, and reinforced engine taking boost then an old og motor with 300k on it lol I’m looking at it as an investment as well |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876131)
I honestly don’t know how much machining would cost where I’m at because I don’t know if my mechanic even does it. But it’s also a matter of reliability. I’d rather have a refurbished, rebuilt, and reinforced engine taking boost then an old og motor with 300k on it lol I’m looking at it as an investment as well |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
My opinion: you need to make the decision now whether or not you plan to disassemble the engine for at least an inspection, and potentially a rebuild. If you are going to have the engine taken apart, let the inspection of the cylinders dictate whether or not you bore the cylinders. If the cylinders are OK and don't need boring, buy 81 mm pistons. If your machine shop recommends boring due to damaged/worn cylinders, then at that point buy 81.5 mm pistons and once they arrive, have the machine shop bore the cylinders to give you the recommended P2W clearances.
You do need to figure out ultimate goals for the car now unless you like spending lots of money when you change your mind. If you know you're going to turn the power up later, spend the money now on building the block. Might as well do it while you've got it apart - you'll be looking for any reason you can to not tear it back down once you have it together. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by DaX
(Post 51876373)
My opinion: you need to make the decision now whether or not you plan to disassemble the engine for at least an inspection, and potentially a rebuild. If you are going to have the engine taken apart, let the inspection of the cylinders dictate whether or not you bore the cylinders. If the cylinders are OK and don't need boring, buy 81 mm pistons. If your machine shop recommends boring due to damaged/worn cylinders, then at that point buy 81.5 mm pistons and once they arrive, have the machine shop bore the cylinders to give you the recommended P2W clearances.
You do need to figure out ultimate goals for the car now unless you like spending lots of money when you change your mind. If you know you're going to turn the power up later, spend the money now on building the block. Might as well do it while you've got it apart - you'll be looking for any reason you can to not tear it back down once you have it together. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
I just spoke to my mechanic today and I’ve been doing research on parts and what needs to be done. Apparently there is in fact a machine shop that he takes motors to nearby for machining. Honing I believe is something he does himself standard with new builds. I’ve been deciding and putting together a list of parts I will need and I’m getting ready to start ordering them accordingly. I’m gonna start with stock sized forged pistons and forged rods and if the block needs to be bored then so be it. I’ll return the pistons and get new ones unless the cost is within my budget. Luckily my mechanic likes to consistently keep me updated on cost as he goes. Although I was wandering about bearings, head studs, and the whole valve train (valves, seals, springs) if anyone has any recommendations for those and camshafts. I was told forged H beams are good and should give them a try. Any objections? Ultimately, I’m going to build the whole motor. I’m not 100% sure how much power the block itself can take so I’m going to keep the boost on the lower side of maybe 9-12 psi to begin with until I know the block itself can handle it. 250-350 whp is a lot for a car that only weighs about 2300 lbs anyways lol I’ve heard of getting an oil pan fitted for turbo applications? Is that what I’m gonna need? Other than that, I’m putting the part cost together now. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, pistons, rings, rods, bearings, head studs, oil pump?, oil pan?, head gasket, intake manifold, and a hondata hopefully sooner before later. It’s 2:30 am over here so if I’ve missed anything then PLEASE put me on blast and tell me. Planning on making this good so let me know recommendations and suggestions :) much thanks |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
I’m gonna start with stock sized forged pistons and forged rods and if the block needs to be bored then so be it. I’ll return the pistons and get new ones unless the cost is within my budget.
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
Although I was wandering about bearings, head studs, and the whole valve train (valves, seals, springs) if anyone has any recommendations for those and camshafts. I was told forged H beams are good and should give them a try. Any objections? Ultimately, I’m going to build the whole motor.
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
I’m not 100% sure how much power the block itself can take so I’m going to keep the boost on the lower side of maybe 9-12 psi to begin with until I know the block itself can handle it. 250-350 whp is a lot for a car that only weighs about 2300 lbs
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
I’ve heard of getting an oil pan fitted for turbo applications? Is that what I’m gonna need?
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
Other than that, I’m putting the part cost together now. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, pistons, rings, rods, bearings, head studs, oil pump?, oil pan?, head gasket, intake manifold, and a hondata hopefully sooner before later. It’s 2:30 am over here so if I’ve missed anything then PLEASE put me on blast and tell me. Planning on making this good so let me know recommendations and suggestions :) much thanks
Many more things I didn't list - read those build threads. Good luck. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by Matteggy
(Post 51876538)
I just spoke to my mechanic today and I’ve been doing research on parts and what needs to be done. Apparently there is in fact a machine shop that he takes motors to nearby for machining. Honing I believe is something he does himself standard with new builds. I’ve been deciding and putting together a list of parts I will need and I’m getting ready to start ordering them accordingly. I’m gonna start with stock sized forged pistons and forged rods and if the block needs to be bored then so be it. I’ll return the pistons and get new ones unless the cost is within my budget. Luckily my mechanic likes to consistently keep me updated on cost as he goes. Although I was wandering about bearings, head studs, and the whole valve train (valves, seals, springs) if anyone has any recommendations for those and camshafts. I was told forged H beams are good and should give them a try. Any objections? Ultimately, I’m going to build the whole motor. I’m not 100% sure how much power the block itself can take so I’m going to keep the boost on the lower side of maybe 9-12 psi to begin with until I know the block itself can handle it. 250-350 whp is a lot for a car that only weighs about 2300 lbs anyways lol I’ve heard of getting an oil pan fitted for turbo applications? Is that what I’m gonna need? Other than that, I’m putting the part cost together now. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, pistons, rings, rods, bearings, head studs, oil pump?, oil pan?, head gasket, intake manifold, and a hondata hopefully sooner before later. It’s 2:30 am over here so if I’ve missed anything then PLEASE put me on blast and tell me. Planning on making this good so let me know recommendations and suggestions :) much thanks FYI... 9-12 psi is considered moderate, not low, you'd be surprised. Not to derail anything with the nitpicks.. Ok so.. You've set your goals.. Now you need to figure your budget for this and see what unfolds! |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Thread is beginning to sound like a dream build rather than an actual plan. Op, you have a alot of reading to do.
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
I agree...
Split your horsepower goals (250/350) at 300 and turbo the stock block. If it needs a rebuild buy a long block from hmotors with a startup guarantee for less than a grand. Don’t over complicate things. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by DaX
(Post 51876563)
You really should wait to buy the pistons until you know whether or not the block needs to be bored. I get what you're saying about returning them, but as a small business owner, customers who do this are a real pain in the ass. Besides thinking about the company you're buying them from, tear-downs, machine work, etc. takes time. You may end up in a tight spot where the return policy (if there is one) is close to running out before you know if you have already bought the correct pistons. You could be stuck trying to sell "NIB 81 mm forged pistons" here or on FB for less than you paid for them.
Your bearings needs to be sized based on how your crank measures, and what kind of oil clearances you want. If you want to see parts lists, read some of the other relatively recent build threads in this section of the forum. If you're going to build the whole motor, you may as well go ahead and have the block CSS'd - my opinion. For about $800 (including shipping) I was able to have CSS installed and all the machine work (bore/deck/hone) done by CNC Werx. Just to give you an idea, I've got about $2,200 in my bottom end. If you're going to do fresh pistons/rings, I recommend at least having a valve job done to make sure everything is sealing properly. OEM valve train is probably OK unless you plan on revving higher that stock redline. I'm not a B-series guy so I'll let someone else chime in with opinions on cams, etc. Regardless, plan on at a minimum having the head resurfaced, valve stem seals replaced (Supertech makes good seals), and a valve job. Again, for valve train parts suggestions, read other recent build threads - I went with a Supertech / Ferrea combo. Again, I'm D-series, but I've got about $1,400 in my head, and that's with zero port work. My opinion - in general, people aren't good at sticking to their original goals they come up with when they start their builds. Overbuild a little so you're not dancing on the hairy edge of what the engine can take. Yes, you need to have an oil return fitting added to your oil pan for the turbo. Typically this is a -10AN bung. I mailed my oil pan and valve cover to Go-Autoworks and had them add the bungs. Valve cover bungs were for additional crankcase ventilation via a catch can. It's easy to get nickeled-and-dimed by the small things you need. Be patient and ready to spend more than you think you will. Here are some small things that you'll need / that I recommend replacing that may be overlooked.
Many more things I didn't list - read those build threads. Good luck. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Oh trust me bud, I have plenty of tabs open on my phone and computer lol
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Lol the car is gonna be a daily. I intend to have a decent sized turbo although on the smaller side for less lag. I am still trying to figure out what that is for me though. in terms of cams, I'm currently looking at a set of stage 2 crower cams but I do keep hearing that oem styled cams are perfect for boosted honda motors if its not a crazy build so I'm gonna look into those ITR cams. It might be better for fuel economy anyways. I've been dd a v8 for the last year so no mater how you look at it, this will definitely be a step up in reliability, practicality, and my bank in the long run. And the reason I'm going so in depth on this build is because I bought the car for really cheap with 300k+ miles on it. I'm trying to invest in it to so it wont shit on me in the future and I can still have a little fun. Someone else on the thread recommended an after market long block and so I may do that when I'm ready for more boost way down the line, but I will try to keep my hp goal a little low because, like I might have said before, even 250 hp is a lot for a car that only weighs about 2300 lbs
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
So...it sounds like you will be paying someone to do the work, including the engine rebuild. Better account for that. If you want to save money and know how to wrench on cars, that will save you a good amount. It not, just hope your mechanic will put 100% effort into building your motor right without half-assing it. Not bashing the guy, just letting you know mechanics do and will cut corners.
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
I understand that. I'm having him do the internals and all because I don't have the resources to pry my motor open end work on them as of now. Intake, plugs, injectors, pretty much anything I can reach I'll work on myself
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Like I have always known...the only person who will take care of your car....is yourself. Good luck, man. Keep us posted with the progress
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Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
Originally Posted by simike
(Post 51876603)
I agree...
Split your horsepower goals (250/350) at 300 and turbo the stock block. If it needs a rebuild buy a long block from hmotors with a startup guarantee for less than a grand. Don’t over complicate things. |
Re: Matteggy's B18b1 Turbo Build- What are the advantages of Boring out the cylinder?
So does anybody know anything about the quality of Nippon turbo pistons? |
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