Ok, just for giggles while I was re-wiring my blue box a little neater the other night, I decided to open it up and have a look inside...

Here are some pics:









I know common knowledge is that the blue box is not adjustable at all, so my question is... what do these items control, especially pertaining to the tunable "pots" (i think that's what they're called, the blue and yellow things).. what about the pin connector? Also, there is a set of jumpers as well visible to the lower right in the second pic, anyone have any idea what can be done with this stuff?

The main reason I'm asking is this... just had my car dyno'ed yesterday and I put down some decent numbers with stock boost with the greddy kit on a stock D16Z6, but the car was running incredibly rich (somewhere in the 9 range under full boost). I'm just curious if anything can be done inside the box to adjust the amount of fuel dumped in?



[Modified by M-EJ1, 9:02 PM 2/10/2003]

 

"I put down some decent numbers with stock boost with the greddy kit on a stock D16Z6" Just curious what numbers you had.

 

140.7 hp, 133.6 tq. (at the wheels). About a 35hp increase over stock. I think I could squeeze a little more out of it with some better fuel management (VAFC hack is coming soon, so a re run will be in order).


[Modified by M-EJ1, 9:57 PM 2/9/2003]

 

The main reason I'm asking is this... just had my car dyno'ed yesterday and I put down some decent numbers with stock boost with the greddy kit on a stock D16Z6, but the car was running incredibly rich (17.5). I'm just curious if anything can be done inside the box to adjust the amount of fuel dumped in?

17.5 is rich? Thats lean to me..

 

17.5 is lean! I could never redline at 7psi without some pings. That was even with 65 psi fuel pressure.

 

what mods besides the turbo kits are you running. do you have an intercooler?

if 17 is lean...what is stoic?

 

Stoic is 14.7 i believe and on turbo motors you want it in the 12's

 

M-EJ1, your A/F ratio was in the 9's while you were in boost, that 17.5 was while you were in 4th waiting to floor it. Once you hit boost the A/F reading went off the screen in the rich direction which only went to 10. I had ment to talk to you before I left but we were running late. I think you could benefit from a B&M fuel pressure regulator and drop your pressure a few pounds, that would lean you out across the board. They don't cost much maybe $50, I have one and it gets the job done. Good luck!

 

wow, that's like pitch-black rich.

 

Ok, I have it mixed around then, but yes... in either case, it was incredibly rich. Lots of smoke on my first run, surprisingly the 2nd and third were a little less smokey. I'm gonna go scan the dyno plot now and post it up.

Thanks for the tips turbosol. I'm still trying to figure out where I want to go from here on the fuel management thing. I'm certain this motor can handle much more than the stock 5 psi, but I want to get an appropriate means to deliver fuel other than this bluebox.

Plus it's really pissing me off, I've gone through like 3 tanks of gas in the last week and I don't do that much driving. Guess I need to keep my foot out of it, but it's really hard even with a little bit of boost.

 

I think the government uses it like big brother to lojack you cause no one seems to have success with those.

 

Just in case anyone's interested, here's the plot with the A/F on it...



Nothing spectacular, but I'm pretty happy with the results. Stock D16Z6 with Tanabe Super Hyper cat-back, no intercooler, stock 5psi on Greddy SOHC kit, Type-S bov.


[Modified by M-EJ1, 11:28 PM 2/9/2003]

 

holy ****! there are a lot of variable resistors in there!!! that thing might be tunable!!!!

wow! i have one of those lying around for my integra...if i could tune it, i'd ****** use it!!!!

i cant wait to take mine apart and see what it does and how it does it. we might be able to reverse engineer it... woohooo thanks for sparking my intrerest!

 

ok i took mine apart. basically its pretty straightforward. there is a Xilinx FPGA which acts like a fuel controller that seems to remove some fuel from vacuum (since you've got larger injectors 310cc vs 240) and it adds fuel as boost goes up.

it also is a map limiter so the ECU doesnt "see" boost from the map sensor, but the blue box itself uses the map sensor to add more fuel...

there are 2 important questions...

1) whats up with VR5 through VR11...do they modify fuel in different rev ranges?

my guess is that there is a pretty good chance this is what they do!!!

2) i forgot...

the so-so news to me is that this thing does nothing to retard timing in boost. :-/ wish i still had that J&S ultra safeguard....

very very interesting

also, there is an atmel EEPROM chip much like Hondata in there to program the Xilinx FPGA. its got a sticker on it so its programmed custom for each car...mine has a DC2 sticker on it (integra). too bad it doesnt have timing control, this would be one sweet *** piggyback ecu.

 

That's why I'm still using mine and it's just a matter of time until someone gets a hold of Greddy's Blue Box schematic layout. I wish I have access to Greddy's database.

 

Joe, are you an electrical engineer or something?

 

yeah. how did you guess????

 

actually the sohc greddy kit doesnt come with 310cc's. are you telling me that it might be possible to tune the blue box to run with different sized injectors? i'm very interested in this.

 

falcon, will the greddy blue box for the dc2 compatible with the obd1 ecu?

 

i have no idea how much adjustability there is in the thing. maybe not different injectors, but maybe lean out the 310's so they're not so rich.

you still should dynamically retard timing in boost for reliability. i wonder how hard it would be to design a circuit to do this...

ummm...not sure..i am not the one to answer this though.

 

yea the stock greddy kit for the sohc relies on simply running the blue box with the stock 240cc injectors. when i upgraded to 310s my car idled horribly so i turned down the fuel pressure with my AEM fpr. while everything is fine at idle now, i'm still concerned about fuel delivery from rpm to rpm under boost. would be awesome if someone decoded the blue box entirely and figure out if theres a way to tune it (if its possible). that would make the affordable and perfect-fit greddy kits all the more awesome

 

Those pots inside the blue box are adjustable. When I was working with Greddy they adjusted mine so it would not surge up and down. Try and hold a specific rpm and it will surge. After some tweaking the surging was gone. Just to make sure my blue box had the correct program they re-flashed it with their laptop.

I actually got to see the fuel map but only for a few minutes. If I knew then what I know now.....I would of asked for a copy of the fuel map. But I was only worried about my blue box.

If I get some time I will open mine and see if I can remember which pot they adjusted. Too bad Greddy does not include a turbo map with the e-manage.

 

I was working on a circuit to adjust the timing per rpm and boost levels. I was even thinking about adding intake temps to the mix too, but not sure yet.

Isn't the DC2 an OBD-1 car? I could've sworn it was.

 

Ohhhh, you voided the warranty on that, I am telling.

I never thought about opening it you guys might be onto something. ****, i have not even used mine, i went straight to Hondata, maybe i should see what it is like.

 

The 94-95 was, 96-99 is the OBDIIv1, and the 00-01 is the OBDIIv2.

Austin