well nobody has really given him any real info on why LS is so much better then the h22 .

my guess first off is bossted stock will probly have more power then the stock h22 (untill boosted of course ), if you smoke the ls , its dam cheap to get antoher one.

if i had the cash id do the h22 . if the car had a ls id do the LS . what are you plans for the long term
.

also i find with boost , what does it really matter what motor you put in . with the right amount of boost/mods you can get each motor up the the same power . some more cost effectivly then others

Re: (machine4321)
 

the LS is NOT better than the H22.

the LS will be much more cost effective and will fit more naturally, thats all.

The H22 has two advantages: .4 more liters and VTEC (better flowing VTEC head as well).

The LS can be turbocharged on stock internals and blow a stock H22 out of the water.

Nowadays, if you're considering an H22 you might as well consider a K20 of some kind.

thanks guys


this is the kind of stuff i was looking for


and i am planning on going turbo with few internal mods due to cash

Re: (monkey marmot)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by monkey marmot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the LS is NOT better than the H22.

the LS will be much more cost effective and will fit more naturally, thats all.

The H22 has two advantages: .4 more liters and VTEC (better flowing VTEC head as well).

The LS can be turbocharged on stock internals and blow a stock H22 out of the water.

Nowadays, if you're considering an H22 you might as well consider a K20 of some kind.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LS isn't that much more cost effective

the head flow needs to be looked at a little more...even a FULLY worked LS head won't flow as much as a stock h22 head...and a stock h22 head with just a valve job will flow over 300cfm, yes...300cfm, RLZ got 304cfm out of a stoch USDM h22 head with mearly a valve job

the LS turbo won't necessarily blow the h22 otu of the water. i've seen h22 swaps run high 12's stock. a turbo LS that runs high 12's will cost more than an h22 running high 11's. h2b, rmf header, 3" exhaust, intake, tuned on crome and you can come damn close to running 11's in a hatch on slicks. for an LS, you have to furnish an entire turbo kit and tuning.


and why consider a k20 when you could have a better h2b setup? strong tranny, more gearing options, just as good of a head after a VERY little work, cheaper parts to get the swap going, and capable of 600whp+ on stock sleeves with rods/pistons only.

Re: (s13-t)
 

yeah ur right about the h22's "stock" power and "stock" potential. however, his future goal is to go turbo, and, in that case, i would reccomend the LS because for around 3k you could EASILY get 250+ hp with the right build and tune on the stock LS turbo'd

The K-series head is far superior to any b-series or h-series VTEC head even with work, these heads cannot even be compared the achetecture of the K-seres is so much different it is unbelievable.

Re: (Bseriescivic5)
 

[QUOTE=Bseriescivic5]The K-series head is far superior to any b-series or h-series VTEC head even with work, these heads cannot even be compared the achetecture of the K-seres is so much different it is unbelievable.[/QUOTE

haha, right. i will agree on the b part, but you're far mistaken on teh h series...FAR mistaken

Re: (stewie8apie)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stewie8apie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah ur right about the h22's "stock" power and "stock" potential. however, his future goal is to go turbo, and, in that case, i would reccomend the LS because for around 3k you could EASILY get 250+ hp with the right build and tune on the stock LS turbo'd</TD></TR></TABLE>

$3k will get a SHITTY lS swap and turbo kit...a very shitty setup.

and the h22 n/a would still run with that 250whp shitty LS. but he'd still have a LOT more potential turbo as well...

Re: (s13-t)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

$3k will get a SHITTY lS swap and turbo kit...a very shitty setup.

and the h22 n/a would still run with that 250whp shitty LS. but he'd still have a LOT more potential turbo as well...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What? My friend just recently got a COMPLETE and CLEAN (yes legit) full 1994 B18B swap with everything for $1,100 picked up. I don't think 3k is anywhere near the right price for an LS swap man.

Re: (Hybrid93Eg)
 

i had a fully built h22 turbo and went back to an lsvtec.

i suggested an LS motor for now b/c he is on a budget. later on when he does pistons and rods he can then do a vtec head. hell at that point with a nice turbo kit he will have more power than im sure he will ever need.

go look at the times in the sportsman class's.....the b series guys are going faster with less power than the h22 guys

look at the turbo sportsman class.......same thing.

lack of parts and support for the h22 was my biggest reason for switching over. there is a little bit more support now...but not nearly as much as for a b series

i'd work on a b series over an h series any day as well.

Re: (Turbo-charged)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a fully built h22 turbo and went back to an lsvtec.

i suggested an LS motor for now b/c he is on a budget. later on when he does pistons and rods he can then do a vtec head. hell at that point with a nice turbo kit he will have more power than im sure he will ever need.

go look at the times in the sportsman class's.....the b series guys are going faster with less power than the h22 guys

look at the turbo sportsman class.......same thing.

lack of parts and support for the h22 was my biggest reason for switching over. there is a little bit more support now...but not nearly as much as for a b series

i'd work on a b series over an h series any day as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This has been one of the most logical responses I have seen yet. I don't know if most of these people who are reccomending the H22 have ever put one in or even worked on one themselves. Seem people always are looking to cling to the "biggest engine is the fastest" theroy. They just don't fit that well in Civics... Granted they fit a LOT better in an EK then an EG, its still somewhat of task compared to a B swap.

Re: (Hybrid93Eg)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What? My friend just recently got a COMPLETE and CLEAN (yes legit) full 1994 B18B swap with everything for $1,100 picked up. I don't think 3k is anywhere near the right price for an LS swap man.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, so you want a GOOD turbo setup for $1,900?

Re: (Turbo-charged)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a fully built h22 turbo and went back to an lsvtec.

i suggested an LS motor for now b/c he is on a budget. later on when he does pistons and rods he can then do a vtec head. hell at that point with a nice turbo kit he will have more power than im sure he will ever need.

go look at the times in the sportsman class's.....the b series guys are going faster with less power than the h22 guys

look at the turbo sportsman class.......same thing.

lack of parts and support for the h22 was my biggest reason for switching over. there is a little bit more support now...but not nearly as much as for a b series

i'd work on a b series over an h series any day as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>


what can you get for a b series you can't for an h22?

Re: (s13-t)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

$3k will get a SHITTY lS swap and turbo kit...a very shitty setup.

and the h22 n/a would still run with that 250whp shitty LS. but he'd still have a LOT more potential turbo as well...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are seriously too bias on this issue. obviously there is no reason arguing, but the facts are that he could EASILY get an LS for under $1k and if you think that $2k isn't enough to piece together a decent turbo setup then you've obviously never looked at the classifies in forced induction. ALSO, i was being very conservative when i said 250hp, because we ALL know that stock LS sleeves are capable of 400+ hp with some pistons and rods and a good tuner...so you can't really say that the LS doesn't have much of a potential over the h22.

so would H22 be not the best motor for turbo? why?


and what exaclty is H2B&gt;

i know it's an H22 with a b-series tranny but what else?

it that it?

Re: (s13-t)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok, so you want a GOOD turbo setup for $1,900?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have $1,200 int mine and thats with having the turbo professionally rebuilt. Granted its a single cam kit, still. Boost an ls for 2k? Why the hell not?

Re: (stewie8apie)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stewie8apie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are seriously too bias on this issue. obviously there is no reason arguing, but the facts are that he could EASILY get an LS for under $1k and if you think that $2k isn't enough to piece together a decent turbo setup then you've obviously never looked at the classifies in forced induction. ALSO, i was being very conservative when i said 250hp, because we ALL know that stock LS sleeves are capable of 400+ hp with some pistons and rods and a good tuner...so you can't really say that the LS doesn't have much of a potential over the h22.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm not too biased, because i've done both setups, i've done built n/a, i've done sleeved and stroked n/a b, i've done h2b, i've done almost everything...the h2b is the route to go.

Re: (s13-t)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm not too biased, because i've done both setups, i've done built n/a, i've done sleeved and stroked n/a b, i've done h2b, i've done almost everything...the h2b is the route to go. </TD></TR></TABLE>

in your opinion

why do you think i should go H22

Re: (doodooheadfart)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doodooheadfart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in your opinion

why do you think i should go H22</TD></TR></TABLE>

they're fairly cheap. long blocks can be had for $900 easily
they're big. 2.2L &gt; 1.8L
they're strong. TylerH made over 600whp on stock sleeves and the engine was reliable
they've got just a strong aftermarket for them as anything else. What part CAN'T you get for an h22?????
with the h2b kit..they're K killers. look at the times ppl are running with h2b setups.
the heads flow a LOT better than most ppl know. RLZ got 304cfm out of a stock head with JUST A VALVE JOB!

i honestly can't see why you WOULDN"T want to go H22. For the price of a GSR swap, you can make more power and tq wiht an h2b...and have just as many oppurtunities to make more power over that. IF you want big..sleeve it...no biggie. They have press in liners that you can get installed around $500ish and then you can bore it out and run whatever brand pistosn you want. If you want to stick to the proven stock sleeves...mahle has the gold line, JE has the new rings, and weisco is working on some drop in pistons of their own.

i know you can argue just about any of that all day long...but, this is all coming from my personal expierence. I've had 5 hatches, all swapped with different things. I've done sohc, i've done b16, i've done LS, i've done GSR, i've done ITR, i've done a 2.1L ITR, and after all those...i'm going h2b on my newest hatch. So, take it for what it's worth....that's how i feel.

Re: (s13-t)
 

thats your opinion and i can respect that....however

im in the same boat as you. ive had probably 15 honda's all with differnt swaps and variations of things. 4 differnt h22 swaps/set ups etc. ranging from stock to 650+whp.

i feel the B motor is the way to go. to each their own though. your last post backed up where you are coming from on your side of things much better than previously.

i havnt kept up with the H stuff too much lately after i lost interest in the H motor in my hatchback........ what is a half way decent intake manifold for a turbo car thats available other than the GE manifold? big plenum manifold not something like the skunk manifold...which by the way i do not like the skunk h22 mani at all.

Re: (Turbo-charged)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is a half way decent intake manifold for a turbo car thats available other than the GE manifold? big plenum manifold not something like the skunk manifold...which by the way i do not like the skunk h22 mani at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

as much as you might laugh...but the obx manifold is actually a decent piece to go with. we've got one an an h2b right now that's prob getting boost soon as well. i was VERY surpised when it got here.

but, if you're like me...and cheap...i'm just hacking apart the stock mani to make a BIG plenum and massaging the runners myself

Re: (s13-t)
 

i tried a obx manifold on a turbo b16 and lost horsepower over the factory intake manifold. it "blings" but didnt work worth a damn. ive modified stock manifolds....cut the runners right after the injector bungs and made my own plenum and runners...and used the GE manifold. it would be nice if somebody would design something like the full race manifold for an h22. ive personally delt with a lot of cars that would benefit a lot from that.

i beleive it was matt from one-fab who made an adaptor to bolt up a JG manifold on an H..thats pretty cool i may just have to look into that. or even better make an adaptor for a full race mani....hmmmmmm

i saw that too...pretty nice deal if you ask me


but, we're goign to see if we lose power with the obx...it's the new, larger plenum style...99% identical to the GE/Venom style

Re: (s13-t)
 

cool let me know how it goes. the one i tested was the big round plenum one. i did before and after no variable testing....took off one manifold and put on the other. unfortunatly i dont remember the numbers

did you do any tuning after? or just straight map to map?