Ok it suxs to admit it but after doing much research and asking a few key people it would seem my maximum power output is being dulled down due to my turbo which im running.

The turbo im running is the one supplied by max rev which is a garret t3/t4 t3 exhaust side .63, intake t4 side is a m24 AR .60

I have a fully built b16 engine and currently am making around 300 hp on 20psi of boost, and from doing lots of research it would seem the limiting factor is defiantly my turbo. The hardest question is do I take my craapy turbo and rebuild it with new wheels and what not, or buy a new turbo a t3 60-1 with a 82ar wheel which seems to be the best turbo currently for many big power honda’s going around. The stupid thing is im based in Australia so most of this common knowledge is very hard to come accorss.


If you would like a break down of what I think my power problems might be you can read about it on this website I made…

http://home.themaestro.net/blk...m.htm

The other item causing a lack of power I believe is my max rev manifold which isn’t as efficient as lets say Geoff’s full race manifold, so im stuck deciding to save up buy a new manifold and turbo or just get the turbo for now and see how it goes with the log style manifold.
Also does anyone know if the t3 60-1 ar 82 comes in a ball bearing version, if im going to buy a new turbo I might as well make it a ball bearing one this time…


Any input is more than welcome !!

Regards James

 

for a b16, that size sounds about right to me...dont know why you're dissatisfied with 300whp from a b16...sounds awesome to me..

 

precision turbo! the way to go

 

Try a Garrett GT35 ball bearing with a .82 A/R turbine. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/sr....html

 

who's the best person selling precision turbo and what model do you recomend ?

im just a little scared the GT35 might be a little to large

Although... hmmm maybe not its still t3 and its BB...

Regards James

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MiraiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for a b16, that size sounds about right to me...dont know why you're dissatisfied with 300whp from a b16...sounds awesome to me..</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm because its 300whp@20psi..

 

yeah wewll i took the car to 22psi and 24psi and it did't make much power difference.. the engine is fully buit.. and you can see the dyno graph in my link... in my 1st post....

It just seams my max rev turbo is running out of puff at around 300hp...




The only thing is now i don't wanta make the same mistake and buy a turbo which is to large ! for a little b16 !!

Regards James

 

Do you have aftermarket cams in that motor?

 

Nar there the stock b16 cam's but my valve train has been upgraded, thats to rocket with his springs he was sellin ages ago... and a port and polish the more i rev the more power it makes....

Regards James

 

Is the Compressor an E or B style? What trim?

It its a B, I would look into one of precision's turbo's...

Maybe a SC44.

If it is an E style, then there is something wrong.

 

I sadly have no idea if its B oe E, photos of the turbo can be found at the below URL

http://home.themaestro.net/blk...m.htm

The other turbo maybe i was thinking about is the GT30 which might be more suited... for what i need but i might run into the same problem with the max rev log manifold not being efficient enough, I talked to someone this morning who was talking to me about back pressure in the turbo manifold and how by reducing this via a more efficient free flowing manifold, would greatly increase the efficiency of the turbo. And the fact when I take my boost level above 18 psi, ie 20 and 22 and don’t produce much more power it strongly suggests the backpressure is building up in the manifold causing the reduction of HP.


Regards James

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bryson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it is an E style, then there is something wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i take it then that the E style is more efficient??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smallttocs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i take it then that the E style is more efficient??</TD></TR></TABLE>

They will make more power.

 

i hate the manifold but i dont know for a fact if thats why

but the turbo looks like a t3/t04e 54trim

i have a 160hp engine to and am running a t3/t04e 57 trim and makking 337whp at 12psi with a drag manifold


i dont like the maxrev manifold

 

if its a b, then i could maybe see why, but i made 270 whp on an LS w/ around 10.5 psi or so

 

Well the Turbo is a E, because all maxrev turbo have been E's... so yeah i guess some of the problem lies with the design of the manifold...
Looks like I might be up for a very big bill !! a new manifold and a new GT30 Turbo, or maybe just the manifold to begin with..
Maxrev seems to be great for less than 10psi, but results on my b16 show any more than 18 psi just is’t worth it on a max rev setup manifold, unless someone can prove me wrong…

Regards James

 

I read over all of ur stuff.

First off, that turbo is an E housing, and it is an E blade wheel. I can tell that just from the pics. Whether it is a 50,54,57 trim or what not it doesnt really matter they all will make good power. If the turbo is off the car you can measure the wheel w/ a caliper and figure out the trim if u like. that said, i dont think the turbo is the problem.

2nd, what octane did u dyno the car on? I looked over ur ignition timing and 13-14degrees would be optimum for 93-94 octane @ 20lbs. Only thing is I would never run 20lbs on pump gas lol. If ur running race gas(which u should @ 20lbs) then that is WAY too much ignition retard and robbing alot of power.

other then that the set up looks really clean, It doesn't look like u cut any short cuts and I agree it should make more then 300whp @ 20lbs. The next thing id look at is kinda off the wall but what kinda dyno did u make these pulls on? good luck

chris

 

i dont' think the problem is your turbo...I have teh same one on my setup t3/t04e 60 trim .63 ar....That turbo should have no problems exceeding 300hp


Modified by Mpir3 at 3:41 AM 4/22/2003

 

also, on the manifold. all the maxrev turbo set ups i have seen have put out similar #'s as revhard/drag and those manifolds don't have a problem flowing 300 or even 400whp. (well maybe the drag does ) but I wouldn't go and buy a new manifold or turbo just yet. Keep digging it is probably something simple.

 

Thanks IRepD for your review of the data presented, very interesting, to answer your question what fuel were running 98 octane fuel out here in Australia which is the best fuel you can buy from any station, we can order in AVGAS (100 octane) and or c16, but currently I haven’t used these fuels yet.

Currently the turbo is still on my car but has the stock wheels in it, the low ignition was dialled back 1 degree as a precaution when running on the street, as this is a full street daily driven car.

I was down at a local turbo rebuilding place, who’s famous out here for hi flowing turbo’s, and he looked at my setup, and straight away said my manifold should be fine, but he did noticed the size of my cooler pipes. I have 2.25” pipes everywhere, he highly recommended I upgrade the pipes from my intercooler to the intake manifold from 2.25 to 2.5 and or maybe even 3”
And deffently wants to hi flow my current turbo and maybe replace the wheels and make it work more efficiently.

This Sunday im going to take the car to the track and run the ¼ mile as is, with 300hp or so then I think im going to start messing around with my intercooler pipes and also hi flow the turbo and re tune. Like pointed out above the limits of my power could also be due to the 98 octane fuel were using.

Iv included some more pics in this post… the dyno graph is a graph when I was on 18 psi.
The red and green lines are 18psi and the black line is on 14psi, as you can see when comparing the other dyno graph on 20psi there’s not much different between 18 and 20.

Both dyno graphs were done on different days, using a dyno dynamic dyno out in Australia. The Dyno Dynamic dyno is a roller dyno where u drive the car onto rollers and measures wheel horse power directly.


The other pics below are engine bay shots I took top nite.. and a pic of my gf waiting for me 2 hurry up and finish and take her home !! eheh

On Sunday ill advance my ignition one or two degree’s down on the track and add some octane booster to our 98octane fuel, and try for the best god dame time I can….

Again any other comments or input is most defiantly welcome !!! so yeah post away ! eheh

Kindest Regards James


18psi boost dyno graph..


Engine Bay shots









Regards James

 

a delsol is called a crx there?

 

yeh dude, a Del Sol is called a CRX here

I didnt know your car was that much of a beast BLKCRX!!

 

eheheh Poid.. u sound like a fellow Australia eheheh
nar its all ="fake" my car is stock...

but yeah.. del sol's are called CRX's... Gen 3's
anyway back on topic we go... :-)

Regards James

 

I am really stumped. The set up really looks good, the tuning looks really good(probably could be more aggressive even) and the dyno looks really powerful. Its kind of hard to read the dynos cause I don't know what those #'s mean but just by looking at the curve u have a huge increase in tq. when boost comes on. My only guess is still the wild one, I wanna say that ur dyno reads differently then the dynos we use in America. How does the car feel? Take it to the track and see how it performs. good luck

 

that power does stink(miriaz)
something isnt right..hrmm