Last night while installing my Golden Eagle girdle i couldnt get it to sit flush. It was riding on my GSR windage tray. i thought that was the purpose of buying a GSR windage tray? i plan on taking it down a local exhaust shop to see if they could cut 2 squares from the middle main caps/girdle location. am i doing somthing wrong? i did a search and only came up with one other post, that person never got a response. This kit i bought from lightinng motorsports awhile back. Thanks everyone!

 

You have to trim the windage tray for anything other than an OEM girdle. don't let a muffler shop hack it up. unless they have a plasma cutter they will **** it up. use a dremel.

also you need gsr main bolts or studs and have the mains line honed.

 

Well, I ran to the local exhaust shop and they did exactly what you said. Only because i didn't get a response from anyone at the time. They bent the windage tray so it doesn't fit perfectly. I'll grab a couple thin washers that should give me clearance. They sorta just warped it a little when they torched it.

Well I didn't get out align honed because I was under the impression that it only had to be done when fitting a gsr gridle. Golden eagle website said "no machine required" and it came with stepped dowel pins. Eeek! What would you guys do?

1.Run with it installed
2.tear it down and get it honed
3. Run just LS mains no girdle?

 

I'd tear it down and get it honed, especially if using ARP mains. Then you're sure.

 

I'm assuming you aren't running OEM main bolts...

if so you must tear it down

the increased clamping force from ARP mains will cause the bearing bores to oval and warp, causing bearing destruction. you must have it align honed

 

Thanks guys looks like i'll be tearing this thing down agian. :/ sucks because i just got these bearing back from Performace coatings. i have to order new oversized bearings and recoated.

 

why would you need os bearings? unless the crank has had the journals turned (which isn't advisable on honda cranks) you don't need them.

and if the crank has been turned then the nitride coating has been machined through, so either the crank needs to be nitrided again or you need to find a good condition crank that hasn't been touched

 

I was under the impression I would need to get another set of bearings if I did a align hone. I turned the crank today before I started to tear it down and it spun rather easy after the 1st spin. But the 1st rotation was harder than I liked. I Spun the crank during each step up of my torque pattern. It got more resistance as each step up.. I'm not that bummed about spending the extra money on Machine work as I am trying to clean all this sticky assembly lube off. This lucas oil stuff is thick.

 

Assembly lube is supposed to be thick...if it isn't, it won't do it's job, and you'll spin the **** out of bearing on first start.

 

My crank could be turned with a single finger pusing the rod journal on the crank, it will have some more resistance as you torque, but it shouldnt be a lot. The entire assembled bottom end should have less than 6lbs of torque needed to rotate the engine

Mone was too low to really register on my bend bar wrench lol maybe 2lbs

 

No, a line hone doesn't remove that much from the mains and an oversized bearing refers to the crank journal clearance, not the bearing to main cap clearance.

normally there's about 3thou of vertical clearance between the bearing and the main cap/block. a decent line hone might take off a thou tops, should be less. so you're still fine on vertical bearing clearance.

if the bearings you have no don't show any signs of scoring or being pinched you can simply reuse them, especially if you haven't finished breaking in the motor as the coating should still be present on the bearings.

it doesn't take much to pinch a bearing if the main bores are distorted but assuming the motor was never started I don't see an issue.

 

If the motor was hard to turn by hand then either your bearing clearances are too tight or the mains are distorted. carefully check the bearings for any pinch. a good sign is if the ends are closer together. When you pull the rod caps off remove the bearing and place it back in. if the ends of the bearing no longer sit flush with the rod surface then you know they're tweaked. same for the main bearings.

sometimes on a freshly assembled motor with the head and valvetrain in place it can be hard to turn over since you're fighting compression and suction in the cylinders, also a typical high grade assembly lube like the Lucas stuff will place added drag on the rotating assembly.

You will have to remove the pistons and rods but if you're gentle doing so you can also leave the rings in place, just make sure the piston comes out in one smooth motion or you could catch a ring end and twist it.

 

One more thing. after the machine work you will need to throughly clean the block, normally the shop might clean it afterwards but don't let anyone hot tank it. hot tanking is corrosive to aluminum and weakens the block.

it needs to be cold tanked or placed in an ultrasonic cleaner. once you get it back wipe the bores down with atf. all of the detergents it contains are great for getting that last bit of crud out of the cylinders, it also removes any buildup from the crosshatch and it clings to the cylinder walls, making for a good lube during reassembly and it also helps stop corrosion from forming on the cylinder walls until the head goes on and it's cranked the first time.

 

Hydrosonic cleaners are definitely the ****. Nothing better for making anything metal look brand new.

 

Nope, we have one that's heated with a pump and filtration system. I can put a nasty bare block in it for 30 minutes and it looks new. I clean lots of turbo parts in it too. 15 minutes can have the dirtiest compressor cover looking perfect

 

Wantboost- OK so I made a few calls today and most places are closed today. I called a Speedfactory to see what machine shop they recommend to do a align hone, they pointed me to DG machine. Turns out there is a big line to get behind. So I started to think to my self if i need arp main studs. Wouldn't my sleeves give out before a main bolt? Couldn't I use GSR bolts and torque them to factory specs? I do plan on being near the upper 300 hp.i did a search and most people believe it's over kill anything under 600 hp. What's your personal thoughts?

M4xwellmurd3r - when you say you spun it with your finger where the pistons in? I think I'm just feeling the Rings. I'm just hoping the studs and extra clamping forces arnt applying to much force. Because it was really nice at 56lbs but once I hit 70 lbs and 80lbs it felt too much. But this is my 1st time. What do I know?

Notaracist- Ya I knew it was gonna be thick. I just didn't know if it'd be so sticky.To the point that it would make me apply a tad bit more force starting the rotation. After that initial 1/4 turn it freezes up and spins nicely.


Thanks guys! I'm really learning alot.

 

I could go to a couple other good places I found on yelp about machining. Just sounds like a job for a really experience person. And honestly every machine shop thinks there poop doesn't stink.

 

for 300 you don't need a girdle, nor do you need upgraded mains.

if you were making 500+whp on a drag or road course car then yea... but you are just wasting money for no reason pretty much

 

I figured I'd be playing in the higher upper rpms, I'm just gonna bite the bullet and put the arps/gridle in and get it aligned honed. Figured if honda used them, I'll use them. I wanted to try and get away with using the gridle and gsr oem bolts. But I don't know if they have the same grip length. I'm willing to bet golden eagle's a hair taller. :/

 

I could spin it with a finger with just the crank in, no rods or pistons.

With arp mains youre supposed to torque them to arps specs or else they wont supply the right forces imo.

At 56lbs its not really any better than stock. You can use stock gsr bolts, I dont see any issue with that.

 

[QUOTE=wantboost;49692775]You have to trim the windage tray for anything other than an OEM girdle. QUOTE]

interesting you mention this reason being i have a erl girdle on my block im assembling back together. so the clearance wont be good since the girdle is more beefer than stock. should i just cut holes where its needed on the windage tray to make it go over the girdle?

 

I can post pictures of what I had to cut. When I get home in a few hours. I actually just had the exhaust shop cut it and I gave them a case of beer. They actually warped it in the process. I have to use a small washer on side.

Honestly you could just do what Wantboost said and use a dremel. But beware it's pretty thick. I burned up 2 discs before I realized a case of beer was cheaper than more cutting supplies.

 

yea just trim the tray where the girdle touches. Personally I also drill holes in the windage tray where the studs are. That way all I have to do is pull the pan to check main stud torque.

the tray is fairly beefy, however with the right cutting wheel it is doable. The only reason I said dremel is it's a fairly precise tool for detail work. If you have a steady hand and a vice to clamp the tray in you could use an angle grinder with a thin fiber reinforced cutoff wheel

 

Not beautiful.

 

That's uh...impressively bad.