<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek9turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im making 400hp with my stock sleeves using a block guard,
let a machine shop install it for u
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That should be enought information right there!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bullshit. Show me proof that blockguards cause cylinders to be out of round.

When properly installed they WILL NOT MAKE CYLINDERS OUT OF ROUND. Why is everyone so thick-headed about the myths they read on Honda-Tech. Have you ever even tried using a blockguard?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Proper installation includes align honing afterwards, if you were to read his post he was refering to putting it in with out doing so. Notice that is the portion I quoted

 

M, I honestly think you are chancing with the block gaurd, when you get the head off, soo how the sleeves are, they have seen 300 hp before, and I'm sure they are fine. I think you are better off leaving the stock sleeves and spending the money on tunning.

people think that the BG is the reason they have 400 at the wheels, I think stock sleeves can handle that fine with proper tuning.

 

you people arent listening to me- if i have to have a machine shop install and hone- i will have to go without

I cannot and will not remove the block - time frame is tight as it is to get the head off and new turbo on before i move-

besides if i had to pay a machine shop 150 for a hone, and if i paid 90 for the BG, thats 250, save money and for an extra 500 you can have sleeves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DeadLock23 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
people think that the BG is the reason they have 400 at the wheels </TD></TR></TABLE>

Shut up, try to be a smartass else where. Tuning is obvisouly the most important step in a turbo process, however a BG will not damage a sleeve or block... The people who don't tune have problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GRTechnologies &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what is the rate of expansion of a blockgaurd?

this is the reason i don't believe in blockgaurds, the rate of expansion is different the sleeves and cast block.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The metals have a different rate of expansion for a reason right. One is less malleable at high heats than the other correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by antisport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Shut up, try to be a smartass else where. Tuning is obvisouly the most important step in a turbo process, however a BG will not damage a sleeve or block... The people who don't tune have problems. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So obviously running 50psi on stock sleeves is no problem if you tune, right?

Tunning goes a long way, but detonation is not the only reason a cylinder wall will crack.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So obviously running 50psi on stock sleeves is no problem if you tune, right?
.</TD></TR></TABLE>


PSI has absolutely no relation to sleeve failure.

Just to let you know

 

you know what I was getting at.
I like closed decks anyway but BG will help if not!

50psi? http://www.turbomagazine.com/t...edge/

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Whitey. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


PSI has absolutely no relation to sleeve failure.

Just to let you know </TD></TR></TABLE>

I am by no means an expert on FI, but I don't see how there could fail to be a relation on some level.

As PSI goes up, so does the pressure in the cylinders. At some point the pressure is going to be more than the sleeves can hold. Looking at the one posted example in this thread, the sleeves did not crack on the thrust angle of the rod/piston...

If PSi has no relation to sleeve failure, why resleeve at all? As stated above, with the right tune you shouldn't have to worry about detonation.

The url posted is a closed deck engine, I don't see how that relates?

 

just for the 55psi, no relation looked intresting!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am by no means an expert on FI, but I don't see how there could fail to be a relation on some level.

As PSI goes up, so does the pressure in the cylinders. At some point the pressure is going to be more than the sleeves can hold. Looking at the one posted example in this thread, the sleeves did not crack on the thrust angle of the rod/piston...

If PSi has no relation to sleeve failure, why resleeve at all? As stated above, with the right tune you shouldn't have to worry about detonation.

The url posted is a closed deck engine, I don't see how that relates?</TD></TR></TABLE>

PSI has absolutely no affect on the cylinder walls, only WHP levels do. 50 pounds per sq inch of actual pressure will not even come close to cracking a sleeve. Think about how thick they are and the steel liner in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Proper installation includes align honing afterwards, if you were to read his post he was refering to putting it in with out doing so. Notice that is the portion I quoted </TD></TR></TABLE>

I realize what you were quoting. The instructions that came with my GE Blockguard did not require honing of the cylinders after installation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by antisport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know what I was getting at.
I like closed decks anyway but BG will help if not!

50psi? http://www.turbomagazine.com/t...edge/</TD></TR></TABLE>

I really enjoyed reading that. You guys should check it out. 4000 hp "integra."

Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PSI has absolutely no affect on the cylinder walls, only WHP levels do. 50 pounds per sq inch of actual pressure will not even come close to cracking a sleeve. Think about how thick they are and the steel liner in there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

But as PSI increases so does WHP.

I see what you are saying, but there is a relation simply because as PSI increases there are other changes inside the engine as well.

PSI by itself, no its unlikely that you would ever run enough boost to crack it simply because of the air pressure.

Well I don't agree with the instructions. The chances of the blockguard being 100% perfect to your blocks casting is not high. The whole idea behind the blockguard is that its a tight enough fit that pressure from the sleeves is spread out through the block. Over time, if some areas of the sleeves are a tighter fit than the rest, it will cause warping.

Some may get lucky, and the difference isn't enough to cause a problem. I wouldn't chance it personally.

This is what Energy Dynamics has to say...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Re: T.O.O: Nufromz blockguard or not....

Posted by T.O.O. on April 25, 1998 at 20:28:04:
In Reply to: T.O.O: Nufromz blockguard or not.... posted by body on April 25, 1998 at 14:08:57:

The concept is really a good one. My personal experience with them is that the top of the cylinder bore runs extremely hot due to the lack of coolant. We have taken the unit and used a 3/8" end mill and scalloped the circular sections which surround the cylinder bores. We leave only 1/8th" sections every 3/8th". So you still support the cylinder, but only in 1/8th" wide areas, which allows much better cylinder cooling, and if you do this mod, and you really need the support, do it....it'll work. Make sure that after "fitting" the unit, bore and hone after installation. Also deck the block after installation and clean the block thoroughly before assembly. Do not, under any circumstances remove the blockguard after all this machining and prep, or you'll need to start over........................T.O.O. ..........................
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
PSI by itself, no its unlikely that you would ever run enough boost to crack it simply because of the air pressure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. PSI has absolutely no relevance in measuring an engine component's strength. It's the horsepower level that matters. For example, holding everything else equal an SC61 will make more power at 8 psi than a 14g will make at 12 psi. In this example you're safer with 12 psi than 8 psi.

 

But in general, what happens to whp as PSI increases? (ignoring a turbo being unable to support more PSI)

There is a relation, as you are cramming in more air, you can cram in more fuel. This of course makes more combustion. As combustion increases, so does cylinder pressure.

I don't see WHP levels being an accurate way of judging how much a sleeve can take either.

WHP is just a measurement of torque, its not the changing of heat into work that makes the cylinders crack, its the pressure that is a byproduct of it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But in general, what happens to whp as PSI increases? (ignoring a turbo being unable to support more PSI)</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're talking about the exact same turbo power increases with psi, but you cannot assume everyone uses the same turbo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're talking about the exact same turbo power increases with psi, but you cannot assume everyone uses the same turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, but my point is that there is a relationship between PSI and sleeve failure.

As PSI increases, so does cylinder pressure because it allows more combustion.

I agree that you can't directly say "Your cut off is 15psi before you sleeve" , but anytime you increase your PSI you are putting more pressure on the cylinders walls.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by antisport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Shut up, try to be a smartass else where. Tuning is obvisouly the most important step in a turbo process, however a BG will not damage a sleeve or block... The people who don't tune have problems. </TD></TR></TABLE>

no one is being a smartass except you telling ppl to shut up.....

I also didn't state that the BG will damage anything when properly installed, but if you read through the whole thread, 95gsrturbo doesnt have the time to make sure it is properly installed, he wants to pop it in for insurance "just in case"

but if its improperly installed, the intended insurance can lead to something worse in the long run.........

and if tuning was so OBVIOUS then people wouldnt be asking silly question like "do I need hondata" get your facts in line before opening your mouth

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, but my point is that there is a relationship between PSI and sleeve failure.

As PSI increases, so does cylinder pressure because it allows more combustion.

I agree that you can't directly say "Your cut off is 15psi before you sleeve" , but anytime you increase your PSI you are putting more pressure on the cylinders walls.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As CFM increases, so does cylinder pressure because it allows more combustion.

PSI has nothing to do with it.

 

http://www.boosted-hybrid.com/viewtopic.php?t=1261

 

PSI and CFM are related

airflow (CFM) with out boost = cid x rpm x 0.5ev / 1728

airflow (CFM) with boost = pressure ratio x CFM (with out boost)

pressure ratio = 14.7 + PSI / 14.7

 

The amount of back pressure from a turbo has nothing to do w/the cyl pressure the sleeve sees.Cylinder pressure has everything to do w/sleeve power levels.If you are making 600 hp w/a turbo@25 lbs or40 lbs the cyl sees the same cyl pressure.

 

The equations are for the CFM of a motor, not a turbo.

If you are saying that sleeve failure is a result of WHP, then the only way for PSI to be completely unrelated is if PSI did not increase WHP as PSI increases.

Obviously this is not the case. So if WHP increases as PSI increases, PSI can be related to the failure of sleeves.

I also don't completely agree that a 600hp motor see's the same cylinder pressure if its X psi or Y psi. There are many factors in HP that don't directly effect cylinder pressure (like windage).