Anyone ever built an intake manifold?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
From: PA, US
Anyone ever built an intake manifold?
I was thinking about atempting this at work with a guy i work with that builds headers and stuff for v-8 cars (also has low 7 sec car). I showed him a JG IM and he thinks he can do the same if not better for not even half the price.
Just wanted to see if anyone else has ever built one.....other then cody, cuz i think he builds what ever he wants
post some pics or tell me how it went......Just interested in what has been done or hasn't been done. We might just build one for something to do.
Just wanted to see if anyone else has ever built one.....other then cody, cuz i think he builds what ever he wants
post some pics or tell me how it went......Just interested in what has been done or hasn't been done. We might just build one for something to do.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
From: PA, US
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (slashDEVslashNULL)
I'm not sure if he will or if he can on a vr6....but i do know this, if he had one to go by i'm sure he could make it better.......the manifold we might be making will look like a turbo manifold, kind of....hard to explain....
anyone got pics of stuff that has been done? I don't want to be the only one with a pic of one once we make this thing
anyone got pics of stuff that has been done? I don't want to be the only one with a pic of one once we make this thing
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 0
From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (80884)
bullshit.
There is a ****-ton of R&D that goes into making these manis. And they are built to exacting specifications to achieve very specific flow characteristics.
V-8's are different than I4's man.
Now maybe he could design a hacked turbo intake manifold, cause you're just maximizing volume, and sacrifing velocity ther, but even then, there are turbulance characteristics that come into play.
does he know what velocity stacks are? If not, don't even consider working with him.
-PHiZ
There is a ****-ton of R&D that goes into making these manis. And they are built to exacting specifications to achieve very specific flow characteristics.
V-8's are different than I4's man.
Now maybe he could design a hacked turbo intake manifold, cause you're just maximizing volume, and sacrifing velocity ther, but even then, there are turbulance characteristics that come into play.
does he know what velocity stacks are? If not, don't even consider working with him.
-PHiZ
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
From: PA, US
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (PHiZ)
I'm just going after an intake manifold that will add power and make the car run better. Not going for the best intake ever made. Just want to know if anyone else has done this, if it's going to be a big problem with people saying **** then forget about it, I'll just keep my mouth shut
And to say bullshit is just not right, so your saying that if we made one it would make no more power then stock? I'm going to have to say no to that one. but like i said, I'll just be quiet.....If anyone has pictures or helpful info please share it.
And to say bullshit is just not right, so your saying that if we made one it would make no more power then stock? I'm going to have to say no to that one. but like i said, I'll just be quiet.....If anyone has pictures or helpful info please share it.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 242
Likes: 1
From: Honolulu, HI
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
From: western NC
you MIGHT can get one to flow over stock..and make more power....but, probally not unless it's boosted, sorry.
do some reasearch and talk to ppl that ACTUALLY KNOW what they are talking about...instead of some dude that wants to make somethintg that LOOKS like it would work...
Brad (MAX_CFM) knows his stuff...just a "little"
do some reasearch and talk to ppl that ACTUALLY KNOW what they are talking about...instead of some dude that wants to make somethintg that LOOKS like it would work...
Brad (MAX_CFM) knows his stuff...just a "little"
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,273
Likes: 1
From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (eh2nboost)
Im tinkering with one for my beaters d16z6 right now It will have some sort of Velocity stack effect, along with a tapered plenum. One flaw that I found was the sharp 90° angle that the air has to travel to get to cylinder 1. Its for a beater, Im not out to make any records, so I think itll work semi-decently. Ive got 3 more to make for various PERSONAL engines, Ill tinker with some different designs in the process.
Ill have pics up of the z6 manifold tonight!
oh ya, contact "Evoeone" on here, he has made a few for some customers on HT....
It will have some sort of Velocity stack effect, along with a tapered plenum. One flaw that I found was the sharp 90° angle that the air has to travel to get to cylinder 1. Its for a beater, Im not out to make any records, so I think itll work semi-decently. Ive got 3 more to make for various PERSONAL engines, Ill tinker with some different designs in the process. Ill have pics up of the z6 manifold tonight!
oh ya, contact "Evoeone" on here, he has made a few for some customers on HT....
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,273
Likes: 1
From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (Tinker219)
Its for my Beater D series. Still have to portmatch the runners from the stock flange to the welded-on runners, but the rest of it turned out pretty good. Ive got around 2 hours into it, spread out over the last 3 days(collector cuts take forever, gotta do something
)
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,905
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (PHiZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dipshit
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
great attitude, why are you knocking the guy for trying. all he wants is something for personal satisfication, not to please you. i ask that you please keep your "kiddie" coments to yourself.
thanks
-dave
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
great attitude, why are you knocking the guy for trying. all he wants is something for personal satisfication, not to please you. i ask that you please keep your "kiddie" coments to yourself.
thanks
-dave
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
From: Manchester, NH, USA
If you copy the design and dimensions of a known good manifold, you can't hurt anything.
It is unlikely the end result will be perfect, but with good runners and a correctly sized plenum, you can certainly improve over stock.
It is unlikely the end result will be perfect, but with good runners and a correctly sized plenum, you can certainly improve over stock.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 2
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (80884)
Making an intake manifold is an extremely touchy subject. You could probably make something that would produce more power than stock, but you have to consider where the power production of the manifold will be made. Generally intake manifolds shift the powerband up or down in the rpm range, this is a direct reflection on the geometries of the runners and plenum. If you are off by 1" on the runners, your engine's ability to breath is going to be off by 500-1000rpm. The plenum size has a slight amount to do with the ability of the intake manifold's breathing capabilities, its far more heavily weighed upon by the runner length.
After reading alot of articles on "flow" of intake manifolds on flow benches, what these tests do not consider is the dynamic aspect of the manifold design. Just because an intake manifold flows 3xxcfm at 0.xx valve lift, doesnt mean it will flow that much when the engine is in dynamical movement. The pressure waves and frequencies generated play far to much of a role on the volumetric efficiency (what these flow bench tests are trying to indicate) than the flow rate of the manifold. The window of these tuning pressure waves and frequencies is fairly narrow (about 3500rpm worth), but the increase in volumetric efficiency is huge (in some cases can be above atmospheric in a naturally aspirated situation i.e boost).
To add further fuel to the fire in making your own intake manifold you have to consider taper runners, as well as bell mouths at each runner opening. The tapered runners will accelerate particle flow, and the bell mouths will provide a lower Reynold's number for the air particles entering the runner. The effect will be faster fluid particle movement over the same distance. The tapered runner will added complex geometry to the design, and to keep track of the area of your runners (both area and length are critical) you'll have to integrate to find the total area. With the bell mouths the shorter the length the better low-end breathing, the longer the length the better high-end breathing. You can effectively make up for a shorter runner manifold by adding the right length bell mouth to the opening of the runner, giving both low and high end response gains.
There is ALOT to keep track of with the design of an intake manifold. Changes in the geometries will have an impact on the volumetric efficiency. Anyone can design an intake manifold and make more power than stock, you'll just have to make alot of revisions before settling on a design that seems to work. I have written a few programs on MathCad that allow me to makes changes in any aspect of the manifold design, and I can see how it can directly effect the volumetric efficiency, torque production and hence horsepower. With these programs I can find the most optimal geometries for displacement, compression, cam specs, head flow specs, etc. I can just give you the advice to try and try until you get something that works if you dont plan on using a scientific approach.
After reading alot of articles on "flow" of intake manifolds on flow benches, what these tests do not consider is the dynamic aspect of the manifold design. Just because an intake manifold flows 3xxcfm at 0.xx valve lift, doesnt mean it will flow that much when the engine is in dynamical movement. The pressure waves and frequencies generated play far to much of a role on the volumetric efficiency (what these flow bench tests are trying to indicate) than the flow rate of the manifold. The window of these tuning pressure waves and frequencies is fairly narrow (about 3500rpm worth), but the increase in volumetric efficiency is huge (in some cases can be above atmospheric in a naturally aspirated situation i.e boost).
To add further fuel to the fire in making your own intake manifold you have to consider taper runners, as well as bell mouths at each runner opening. The tapered runners will accelerate particle flow, and the bell mouths will provide a lower Reynold's number for the air particles entering the runner. The effect will be faster fluid particle movement over the same distance. The tapered runner will added complex geometry to the design, and to keep track of the area of your runners (both area and length are critical) you'll have to integrate to find the total area. With the bell mouths the shorter the length the better low-end breathing, the longer the length the better high-end breathing. You can effectively make up for a shorter runner manifold by adding the right length bell mouth to the opening of the runner, giving both low and high end response gains.
There is ALOT to keep track of with the design of an intake manifold. Changes in the geometries will have an impact on the volumetric efficiency. Anyone can design an intake manifold and make more power than stock, you'll just have to make alot of revisions before settling on a design that seems to work. I have written a few programs on MathCad that allow me to makes changes in any aspect of the manifold design, and I can see how it can directly effect the volumetric efficiency, torque production and hence horsepower. With these programs I can find the most optimal geometries for displacement, compression, cam specs, head flow specs, etc. I can just give you the advice to try and try until you get something that works if you dont plan on using a scientific approach.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,273
Likes: 1
From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (boosted hybrid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Making an intake manifold is an extremely touchy subject. You could probably make something that would produce more power than stock, but you have to consider where the power production of the manifold will be made. Generally intake manifolds shift the powerband up or down in the rpm range, this is a direct reflection on the geometries of the runners and plenum. If you are off by 1" on the runners, your engine's ability to breath is going to be off by 500-1000rpm. The plenum size has a slight amount to do with the ability of the intake manifold's breathing capabilities, its far more heavily weighed upon by the runner length.
After reading alot of articles on "flow" of intake manifolds on flow benches, what these tests do not consider is the dynamic aspect of the manifold design. Just because an intake manifold flows 3xxcfm at 0.xx valve lift, doesnt mean it will flow that much when the engine is in dynamical movement. The pressure waves and frequencies generated play far to much of a role on the volumetric efficiency (what these flow bench tests are trying to indicate) than the flow rate of the manifold. The window of these tuning pressure waves and frequencies is fairly narrow (about 3500rpm worth), but the increase in volumetric efficiency is huge (in some cases can be above atmospheric in a naturally aspirated situation i.e boost).
To add further fuel to the fire in making your own intake manifold you have to consider taper runners, as well as bell mouths at each runner opening. The tapered runners will accelerate particle flow, and the bell mouths will provide a lower Reynold's number for the air particles entering the runner. The effect will be faster fluid particle movement over the same distance. The tapered runner will added complex geometry to the design, and to keep track of the area of your runners (both area and length are critical) you'll have to integrate to find the total area. With the bell mouths the shorter the length the better low-end breathing, the longer the length the better high-end breathing. You can effectively make up for a shorter runner manifold by adding the right length bell mouth to the opening of the runner, giving both low and high end response gains.
There is ALOT to keep track of with the design of an intake manifold. Changes in the geometries will have an impact on the volumetric efficiency. Anyone can design an intake manifold and make more power than stock, you'll just have to make alot of revisions before settling on a design that seems to work. I have written a few programs on MathCad that allow me to makes changes in any aspect of the manifold design, and I can see how it can directly effect the volumetric efficiency, torque production and hence horsepower. With these programs I can find the most optimal geometries for displacement, compression, cam specs, head flow specs, etc. I can just give you the advice to try and try until you get something that works if you dont plan on using a scientific approach.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats all I can say about that 
I think I understood most of it too w00 w00
After reading alot of articles on "flow" of intake manifolds on flow benches, what these tests do not consider is the dynamic aspect of the manifold design. Just because an intake manifold flows 3xxcfm at 0.xx valve lift, doesnt mean it will flow that much when the engine is in dynamical movement. The pressure waves and frequencies generated play far to much of a role on the volumetric efficiency (what these flow bench tests are trying to indicate) than the flow rate of the manifold. The window of these tuning pressure waves and frequencies is fairly narrow (about 3500rpm worth), but the increase in volumetric efficiency is huge (in some cases can be above atmospheric in a naturally aspirated situation i.e boost).
To add further fuel to the fire in making your own intake manifold you have to consider taper runners, as well as bell mouths at each runner opening. The tapered runners will accelerate particle flow, and the bell mouths will provide a lower Reynold's number for the air particles entering the runner. The effect will be faster fluid particle movement over the same distance. The tapered runner will added complex geometry to the design, and to keep track of the area of your runners (both area and length are critical) you'll have to integrate to find the total area. With the bell mouths the shorter the length the better low-end breathing, the longer the length the better high-end breathing. You can effectively make up for a shorter runner manifold by adding the right length bell mouth to the opening of the runner, giving both low and high end response gains.
There is ALOT to keep track of with the design of an intake manifold. Changes in the geometries will have an impact on the volumetric efficiency. Anyone can design an intake manifold and make more power than stock, you'll just have to make alot of revisions before settling on a design that seems to work. I have written a few programs on MathCad that allow me to makes changes in any aspect of the manifold design, and I can see how it can directly effect the volumetric efficiency, torque production and hence horsepower. With these programs I can find the most optimal geometries for displacement, compression, cam specs, head flow specs, etc. I can just give you the advice to try and try until you get something that works if you dont plan on using a scientific approach.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats all I can say about that I think I understood most of it too w00 w00
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 0
From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (2.2Lcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2.2Lcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
great attitude, why are you knocking the guy for trying. all he wants is something for personal satisfication, not to please you. i ask that you please keep your "kiddie" coments to yourself.
thanks
-dave</TD></TR></TABLE>
I gave him advice, and he started being hostile.
Don't ******* ask questions, and then argue about the free advice you get.
And then, my opinion was supported by several following posts.
Also, he wasn't trying to do it himself, he was asking about paying someone to fabricate for him.
Work on your ******* reading comprehension.
Dipshit MKII
-PHiZ
great attitude, why are you knocking the guy for trying. all he wants is something for personal satisfication, not to please you. i ask that you please keep your "kiddie" coments to yourself.
thanks
-dave</TD></TR></TABLE>
I gave him advice, and he started being hostile.
Don't ******* ask questions, and then argue about the free advice you get.
And then, my opinion was supported by several following posts.
Also, he wasn't trying to do it himself, he was asking about paying someone to fabricate for him.
Work on your ******* reading comprehension.
Dipshit MKII
-PHiZ
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
From: PA, US
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (PHiZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I gave him advice, and he started being hostile.
Don't ******* ask questions, and then argue about the free advice you get.
And then, my opinion was supported by several following posts.
Also, he wasn't trying to do it himself, he was asking about paying someone to fabricate for him.
Work on your ******* reading comprehension.
Dipshit MKII
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
your advise started out as......... "bullshit"
I wasn't arguring about free advice, but i found your advice useless, other then to try to make it sound like we are stupid for trying this
followed by several post that explained that it is hard to do, not that i'm too dumb to do it.
and I'm not paying someone to do it, only cost is materials. The labor , designing, trial and error will be free.....Also you must have missed the we part. I'm not doing it alone, and he isn't either.
thanks to other people on this board that have usefull info and haven't listened to some guy that said you can't do it, that i doubt has ever tried anything like that himself.
The way i look at this is this.....Buy intake manifold for $500 get maybe (estimated) 12hp......build intake manifold for less then $100 get maybe 5-6hp, and spend the other $400 on something that can't be built. these #'s are just to show an example of what i am thinking.
oh I have to add this will be tested on my budjet car. just so i can learn stuff and help me understand how stuff works better. So i don't really car if I do this and it cost me $100 and it makes my car slower. At least i tried it and realized what not to do. All about learing experience that with the help of the guy i know and the people on this board, may turn out to be something good for me to use and make more hp for less money. sorry if i affended you phiz but keep this in mind......you can do whatever you want if you have the money and knowledge to do it. If i build it and it sux, then guess what... i'll buy one.
I gave him advice, and he started being hostile.
Don't ******* ask questions, and then argue about the free advice you get.
And then, my opinion was supported by several following posts.
Also, he wasn't trying to do it himself, he was asking about paying someone to fabricate for him.
Work on your ******* reading comprehension.
Dipshit MKII
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
your advise started out as......... "bullshit"
I wasn't arguring about free advice, but i found your advice useless, other then to try to make it sound like we are stupid for trying this
followed by several post that explained that it is hard to do, not that i'm too dumb to do it.
and I'm not paying someone to do it, only cost is materials. The labor , designing, trial and error will be free.....Also you must have missed the we part. I'm not doing it alone, and he isn't either.
thanks to other people on this board that have usefull info and haven't listened to some guy that said you can't do it, that i doubt has ever tried anything like that himself.
The way i look at this is this.....Buy intake manifold for $500 get maybe (estimated) 12hp......build intake manifold for less then $100 get maybe 5-6hp, and spend the other $400 on something that can't be built. these #'s are just to show an example of what i am thinking.
oh I have to add this will be tested on my budjet car. just so i can learn stuff and help me understand how stuff works better. So i don't really car if I do this and it cost me $100 and it makes my car slower. At least i tried it and realized what not to do. All about learing experience that with the help of the guy i know and the people on this board, may turn out to be something good for me to use and make more hp for less money. sorry if i affended you phiz but keep this in mind......you can do whatever you want if you have the money and knowledge to do it. If i build it and it sux, then guess what... i'll buy one.
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 0
From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: Anyone ever built an intake manifold? (Tinker219)
I was highlighting your builder's naivate and backed it up with technical information, specifically on how you could gauge your builder's mettle.
I called bullshit, on his part not yours.
And then you got all heated like a dumbshit.
Go ahead and read this:
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=466
Best wishes with the project. Let us know how it turns out.
-PHiZ
I called bullshit, on his part not yours.
And then you got all heated like a dumbshit.
Go ahead and read this:
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=466
Best wishes with the project. Let us know how it turns out.
-PHiZ
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 0
From: PA, US
Re: (Tinker219)
let me know how that one works out tinker. also didn't you make one before that had like it's own runners from the Tb and went into 4 pipes? The TB was pointed up and not to the passenger side, what was that all about?
I'm not sure what we are going to try to do but it will take some time, i have some ideas as far as design go but i have no idea what it will do. I don't mind the trial and error thing. Like i said it will be fun either way, if it doesn't work out then oh well. But i can't see if it will work or not without doing it. Thanks for the pics and info so far.
I'm not sure what we are going to try to do but it will take some time, i have some ideas as far as design go but i have no idea what it will do. I don't mind the trial and error thing. Like i said it will be fun either way, if it doesn't work out then oh well. But i can't see if it will work or not without doing it. Thanks for the pics and info so far.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,273
Likes: 1
From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: (80884)
I still got that one layin around. Its just TOO HEAVY, it was made out of stainless before I figured AL out. Just wait, I think for my h22, ill try the tubular IM
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 0
From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: (nigel)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nigel »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow someone didn't get laid the past few weeks! just kidding phiz! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
Naw, you hit the nail on the head... I've been a fscking tool lately.
-PHiZ
Naw, you hit the nail on the head... I've been a fscking tool lately.
-PHiZ
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,187
Likes: 2
From: SoCal, CA, USA
Re: (PHiZ)
boosted hybrid knows what he's talking about!
A intake manifold isn't that easy to build. I have found that runner length (distance from the back of the valve to the plenum) is the determining factor for what rpm range the manifold will want to work in, and then the area of that runner is based on the cubic inches, bore, and stroke of the engine. The overall volume of the intake track does affect the harmonics, but the overall length seems to make the biggest difference. Also, from looking at factory setups, a constant area runner seems to be desired by the "tuners" like Honda. But you go to the V8 side, and there is a lot of taper in the runners. Since Honda makes so much better horsepower per liter, I'd go with the theory that constant area is better than taper.
A intake manifold isn't that easy to build. I have found that runner length (distance from the back of the valve to the plenum) is the determining factor for what rpm range the manifold will want to work in, and then the area of that runner is based on the cubic inches, bore, and stroke of the engine. The overall volume of the intake track does affect the harmonics, but the overall length seems to make the biggest difference. Also, from looking at factory setups, a constant area runner seems to be desired by the "tuners" like Honda. But you go to the V8 side, and there is a lot of taper in the runners. Since Honda makes so much better horsepower per liter, I'd go with the theory that constant area is better than taper.