Engine Management and Tuning Crome, NepTune, Hondata, AEM, MOTEC

First steps into tuning :|

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Old Jun 28, 2010 | 01:17 PM
  #1  
RadekSkylark's Avatar
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Default First steps into tuning :|

Hallo everyone, now I have allmost everthing to tune my car its nice, and, today, I went in my yard to try something out

I have 1994 EG, with D15B2/D16Z6 mini me, 3-angle valve job, ported, polished head, stock d15b2 bottom end, 4-2-1 ebay, 60mm exhaust, short ram, d16y8 IM w/ 62mm TB port-matched to head, adjujustable cam gear set 4* retarded... CR is about 10.3:1... I'm running 91pump gas...

So, I have Ostrich 2.0, dataloger, LM-2 wb, laptop, Crome Pro 1.5.3, further I will be using Det Can and checking plugs with otoscope

So, I made basemap, d16z6 maps onto P30 base, I edited gear ratios, and those are fine now did everything as I need - as far as I know - to create basemap...

With stock o2 on, there is no problems at all, but, as I turn it off, I have ~11.8 AFR @ idle... so, I wanted to tune all my map starting with AFR's @ idle, then battery offsets(I'm running stock 240cc injectors), then I wanted to set conservative timing(I really dont know how it will be correctly done, I was thinking about retarding ~3* across the map - low/hi), gear ratio stuff is done then I was thinking of tuning my idle speed-vs-ECT, closed loop function in advanced tables, and the starting to tune fuel and timing on street

I've made this basemap:
Low Fuel
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Low Timing
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Hi Fuel
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Hi Timing
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So, as I understand, one option, is to get idle as I want with help of fuel multiplier...? I did it, and I left it on 0.8, and it was like old injector size 240cc, new 300cc, and it was idling @ 14.8 afrs... I think it was good, and I wanted to leave it that way... I was able to idle it @ 15.5 AFR though
I left stock idle timing as it is...

So, now I wanted to tune my battery offset, so I tried... I never had more battery voltage then 13.9, and less then 12.8, so, there was only two cells to tune, in offset table... I was trying to get them right for an hour, and I couldnt, I just didnt know what I was doing wrong... The technique that I was using was - all power stuff out, then just turning everything back on, hi beam lights, stereo, interior lights, interior fan, etc... What should I do here, should i change the voltages to which I can only get? like, 13.9, 13.6, 13.4, 13.1, 12.9???

Ok, then next thing... as I know, allmost everyone after the car is tuned, switches back on stock o2...? right? my car is running 14.7 @ idle, then I unplug wb from Ecu, plug back stock o2, switch back to closed loop, and it goes totaly lean, like, 17/18 afr...? why its like that?

It would be really nice is someone could explain how I should read graphs- fuel and timing... cause, I dont understand, what to aim for tuning car... I know like afr's I want to aim for, but if I need to check with graph, I dont understand a thing...

And... how often should I use Map Smoothing? and should I use auto-tune?

So, please, guys, help me, sorry for my English, hope you get what I mean, and will be able to help... cause, where I live, I have no one to learn from, and its really hard to get books about tuning from USA... I have read many articles @ internet, but, as you can see, that is not enough

Ok, thank you all
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Old Jun 29, 2010 | 03:55 PM
  #2  
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

You shouldn't need to tune the voltage offset with stock injectors at all, but yes only tune the ones you can achieve.

The LC-1 should have a stock O2 wire, be sure to calibrate it in LogWorks through the serial cable. Make sure you're using the stock O2 settings in the ROM as well or it'll think 0.5v is 10:1 AFR and constantly try to lean out. Frankly you should just disable the O2 altogether and run a little richer, Crome ROM isn't fully reliable for O2 compensation.

Use map smoothing very rarely, typically only when there's very sharp changes in fuel delivery/ timing that could harm your engine. You can just highlight that section (highlight a graph dot, hold shift and arrow over). If you have an Ostrich you should be real-time auto tuning based on the target AFR map (green button). It's a hell of a lot easier for tuning AFR's. Turn it off when you tune the timing, and back on when timing is done.

As far as reading graphs, it's far more complicated than I can explain on a single thread. But the timing graph looks upside down because you usually have less timing with more fuel as the throttle increases.
Click on a graph dot, on the top left it'll tell you what cell spot it is (i.e. 114mBar). Try highlighting a row, cell or column in the table and then switching to the graph to find it's location. It takes practice.
And, generally for every bump in fuel there should be a dip in timing, and vice versa.
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Old Jun 29, 2010 | 03:57 PM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

PS turn down your entire high cam ignition about 5 degrees more than it is.
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Old Jun 29, 2010 | 05:36 PM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Originally Posted by VegasInvasion
Use map smoothing very rarely, typically only when there's very sharp changes in fuel delivery/ timing that could harm your engine. You can just highlight that section (highlight a graph dot, hold shift and arrow over). If you have an Ostrich you should be real-time auto tuning based on the target AFR map (green button). It's a hell of a lot easier for tuning AFR's. Turn it off when you tune the timing, and back on when timing is done.
Have you ever actually used Crome's Auto tuning? It's kind of scary what it did to my fuel map. Fuel and ignition maps should be smooth and continuous with no sharp jumps.

edit: I guess I should add that you can use Auto tune in little pieces but don't drive about for 3 hours and then have it auto adjust the fuel the entire time and then call it a day.

Last edited by MrDomino; Jun 29, 2010 at 09:44 PM.
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Old Jun 29, 2010 | 09:37 PM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Originally Posted by VegasInvasion
PS turn down your entire high cam ignition about 5 degrees more than it is.
Thanks mate

Hmm, you suggest to retard 5* from hi cam in all map? what should I do @ low cam?
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Old Jun 30, 2010 | 02:30 PM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

I say keep your wideband o2 sensor instead of switching it back to the stock o2 sensor. Tuning your AFR is fairly simple as long as you know what you're doing. Ignition timing should be done on a dyno.

Google Crome startup guide. It should help you.
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Old Jul 1, 2010 | 08:35 AM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Is there someone else who could help?
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Old Jul 1, 2010 | 09:00 AM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Originally Posted by RadekSkylark
Is there someone else who could help?
All of your questions have been answered before. Did you look up the Crome startup guide?

Xenocron's site has some help guides

Search on pgmfi.org
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Old Jul 1, 2010 | 11:42 AM
  #9  
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Originally Posted by mouab18c1
Ignition timing should be done on a dyno.
That's not necessarily true, many people prefer to tune on the track. I've street tuned many cars just as successfully as on a dynamometer.
And even a novice can snug up the timing, doesn't have to be perfect obviously but you can get close if you know how to datalog effectively.
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Old Jul 2, 2010 | 10:05 AM
  #10  
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

leave your low cam timing where it is, you still have room to bump it up when you're experienced enough to tune it.
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Old Jul 5, 2010 | 06:36 PM
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Default Re: First steps into tuning :|

Raydek I sent you a PM


I think I know he knows enough to be dangerous and I think he is doing some pretty neat things diving into this stuff.

I can help you via a messenger service like aim or something.

--Aaron
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