the new rules for the nscra outlaw class allows us to use them. but was doin some thinking & 2 things come to mind.
1: if they dont tie into the main hoop then they really wont put the downforce your looking for onto the front tires correct?
2: the 2 front windshield bars should also tie into the shock towers as well in order to get the correct effect of the bars correct?
this seems of a waist of time otherwise. havent checked with the full rules so if they dont allow the tie bars up front doesnt seen worth it. besides u will be limited to thier events only . unless u jump into hotrod or mod.

just curious of what some of u guys think that use them before i proceed

 

i feel they should work regardless. i got a set for my car. you can always pull themoff and change the rear suspension to run without them

 

im mean ya ,it would make sence that they wold still work running them of the back. to a point . but that would probably be the same effect as putting a harder spring in the rear cause they pivot from the same point. in fact the bars are actually further back than the shocks so might not be as effective unless u can get the car to stay down on the bars so u dont loose the weight transfer.

with that said if u tie them into the main hoop & what not u are now in theory pivoting the car from the center of the car. not the rear. thus putting the weight onto the top of the tires more effective. u are almost not even using the rear suspension 2 a point . the rear suspension would come into effect to raise the car up a little once u get moving so the bars lift off.
so wouldent u want s suspension that had a slow rebound in the rear?

post up a pic.
if i do a set of bars off the rear i would probably get a set of promod bars cause thier bigger & thick . cut cut them way short
i just dont want to add all that damn weight to the car runnnig new bars up to the hoop ect..

 

That is either the top end of 2nd gear or bottom end of 3rd. After looking at the picture, I thinking bottom of 3rd gear. See how the slick is still compressed at the bottom. In a good set up the rear tires will have very little weight on them in the top end.

The cage went to the front shock towers. Soft rear springs, and rear shocks that were soft on rebound. The car would sit down and stay down even during the shift.

You don't want the front end being forced back down by the rear shock that has to much rebound. Just takes power to transfer the weight again.

Found this one, this is more towards the top end of 3rd, notice how the rear wheel well seems a bit higher.

 

y au can deff see the diff in ride height in the rear.
what your saying & the the pics do sound about the same as to what im thinking. the problem is alot of events u cant have bars going to the shock towers. & without them i feel its pointless to do something if u dont do it right.

they should allow it as it does add as a saftly feature by helping distribute impact load throughout the car.

 

I'm not up on the nscra rules. But I'm pretty sure the old SFWD rules allowed you to connect to the front shock towers.

 

It is allowed, just not PAST the top of the tower.

It won't make a difference that you'll be able to see or feel though, slap them on, get progress to make you a nice set of coilovers and you'll be all set FWIW I had a 140 lb spring for a 2300lb total weight, and they did all the valving for the car. That's where the money really is.

Your 330's will improve a ton if you do everything properly, it was fun having 2nd gear hook and go with single stage boost lol

 

lol, when the car was out onthe last build it was a set of tanabi sustec pros off the shelf. coilovers. none adjustable valves. bought some 10k springs or something slaped it on. so was deff stuck with what i had. car still managed to cut some mid 1.6s- 1.74 but deff could tell i needed more.

will deff be spending some $$$ on a good setup this time

 

where did u guys get the single wheel style bar

 

nevermind..found them on ken's.

 

i saw that on his site as well. also the solid rear axel looks really nice, lol.
would deff get that but i think that would take me out of some of the events.
i wish their was a way to make that setup none spindal. but that would defeat the purpose of the weight savings.

 

the MB products rear straight axle comes in 4x100 and its lighter than oem suspension.

 

For any locals to me, I have that single bar sitting around collecting dust if anyone needs one lol

 

ive tried finding their website & havent had any luck.

i would deff rather have a 4x100 so u can run at tall the events. but i need to see a pic of it & details like weight ect..

 

also whats up with the single bar setup vs double wheel.

advantages & dis, besides weight?

 

The single doesnt have any real shot at steering the car, but it's not as stable at high speeds.

My new double is even with the centerline of the front wheels, to add stability at high speeds as well as to even out the load since more will be on the bar. But if they aren't equal off the line, the car can easily pull up on one side more than the other.

For a street type car like mine was, stick to the single. Your crew will thank you too lol

 

i think Chad Barber (atrain <--HT user name ) might know the guys from MB products. perhaps he can help get you in contact with them.

goodluck

 

ill send him a pm. thanks

i kinda figured the single would wanna steer u a little ect.. but other than that they are both the same effect at the start

 

If it's off center sure, but if it's properly set up it's less likely too. My car always went straight, the hardest thing was setting the bar since the it rides out of the groove, and the difference of the groove changes going down the track. For people like us it's fine though lol

Some PS cars were using a single bar if I'm correct, may have been some other type though.

 

i dont belive the rwd cars are riding the bar for who knows how long down the track & on top end either lol.... us and our *** backwards cars hahhaha

 

I had 1.38 60' times with the bars on my old PRO4 car, (it made around 620 HP) and the cage was not tied into the strut towers at all. I don't think you fully understand how they work since they don't add any downforce to the front tires. What they do is, prevent weight shift by increasing the wheelbase of the car. Watch any video of a fwd car with a well setup bar and suspension. It doesn't weight shift when it launches. It just accelerates forward. If there was actually a way to increase the load on the front tires when you launch, it would be a like a rwd car doing a wheelie. It just loses ET by weight shifting, instead of accelerating forward.

 

i understand to a point but if u tie into the front if u were to measure loads thier would be a transfer back up to the front how much who knows.

 

If you are accelerating FORWARD, there is no weight transfer possible that goes forward. You are trying to minimize the amount of transfer that is going to the back of the car, and that's all.

Tying the strut towers to the cage just prevents them from flexing.

 

I'll take a shot here. As the slicks grow, don't they try and force the wheelie bar into the track. This is seen by the car raising up riding on the taller slicks and the wheelie bar. This causes the wheelie bar to transfer the weight back to the front or is the wheelie bar just balancing or stopping the weight transfer. But isn't that the same thing as putting more weight on the front tires ? It makes sense that by having the cage attached to the shock towers it all becomes more efficient.

That's how it was explained to me.

 

u are getting what i am trying to say. but dame if i cant put it in easy terms. got to have a good imagination.

i know in theory u are not transferring "weight" so to speak. but when the car goes onto the bars their is A load created that is going to travel through them up toards the cage. ALL of that load will not get transfer to the shock tower bars but some will & the rest will be distributed elsewhere.
otherwise the damn things are useless just get good suspension.

if not screw the damn idea, lol F-n theory's