Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

j-bird20, it is sad how many products are sold that are simply designed wrong. And the truth is that the sphericals only greatly magnify the 100% incorrect design of those EF traction bars with two sets of heim joints. The LCAs were already rotating on launch with the OEM bushings but it was not obvious before when the car was on the rack. I won't sell EF spherical LCAs anymore to drag customers without asking what traction bars they are running. If you bought arms from me I don't mind refunding or selling them for you if they have never been used.

Chris

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

10's with a 340?

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

I did not buy them directly from you and i would not want a refund either way. I am in the process of researching to find a solid heim joint for that or possibly call full-race and see if they can possibly get them. ORRR possibly make 2 new bars out of chromoly and so it just like the Innovative Bar.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

I don't know their strength, but here's some rod eyes.
http://www.rodendsupply.com/special-products.php

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

1/8 mile.... with a 3/4 race cam and double hump heads jumping beer cans with G60's on asphalt.. Bet you couldnt grab that $100 off the dash..:o

Most 26" tired cars envy my short track and I do it with traction bars....
1.50, 4.0 and 6.0 on just about EVERY track that I've run on.... 24.5" 2400lbs with less then 800whp...


If I could only figure out this traction thing and be apart of this "fastest" thing.. Who knows I may even win a race.... A man can dream:door:

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

So does the spherical bearing make the rotation of the arm worse? I thought the spherical bearing would prevent that due to its strength and rigidity.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

In this case the sphericals make the rotation dramatically worse. The issue is triangulation. Any double A arm Honda front LCA that I know of is triangulated. That is to say that there is a front and rear pivot point for the LCA and those two points are tied together such that the entire arm stays in one axis. Take the EF front LCA for example. The radius rod bolts to the straight portion of the LCA at two locations such that when the arm articulates through its range the radius rod moves with the LCA in the same plane. It can NOT move independently of the LCA.

In the case of these two or more high profile companies selling EF "traction" bar setups, they are using two pairs of heim joints. That is wrong. Period. They should pull those products off the market. The legs of the traction bar are no longer rigidly tied to the LCA. The LCA can rotate forward while the legs of the traction bar articulate upwards. The problem has nothing whatsoever to do with my parts or any other company that sells sphericals for the EF front LCAs. It is an issue of bad "traction" bar design. If you take my or any other companies spherical LCAs and run stock radius rods and radius rod bearings or you use spherical LCAs and a proper traction bar setup that rigidly ties the traction bar legs to the LCA this issue does not exist. You just simply want the front and rear pivot points of the LCA to act in concert. Think of the UCA. It is simple right? The entire UCA should pivot together. It is triangulated. That is all you want with the front LCA.

Now you want to open a can of worms, start talking about the rear of a DC/EG/DA/EF. That is a bad design as well but you can blame Honda for that. But unless you are road racing who cares.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

Thanks for clearing that up. The spherical bearings are my next upgrade but it looks like I have to do something about my bars now too.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

I know what you are saying here man. I could not spend the big bucks for the good stuff, so I opted for some PCI sphericals for my EF front lower arms. Gonna get it all figured out though.

I put sphericals in my EF front lca's, thought I was going to be doing some good for it. I was wrong. I have yet to completely finish my car and drive it, but I am now looking at trying to get a something more solid so I can cut down on that rotation that chrisb is talking about. These may work though..... http://www.rodendsupply.com/special-products.php

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

are the ef chassis breaking ball joints when the LCA rotates ?

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

The ball-joints on my car are about 3 years old and they dont show any signs of breaking but this year is the first year i will be using the spherical bearings but i wont be letting those arms move like that. The rotation of the arms will be fixed before the car goes out.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

You just going to use something like the Innovative bars to fix that rotation problem?

I was just out in my garage looking at my car and doing a little research online to check out solid rod ends that I could possibly use.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

A little update. Had some time in the morning to think about this. I figured i would weld the original heims to keep them from swiveling and it seems like the problem is fixed. Put everything back on and the lower control arms doesn't move one bit. They are welded on both side.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

Pretty solid stuff there J-bird.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

Nice j-bird20. Before I saw the pics of your welded heims I talked to a friend about doing the same to mine. Let me know how that works out for you. I hope to have my car done by September and I am sure you will have yours all back up and running before me.

Re: Traction Bar Preload
 

Jason your rough settings here when your talking about toe do you mean in inches?

As mentioned on a EF style dual joint traction bars aren't right, I've had end adjusters made to convert mine into a innovative style trailing arm.