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Dart vs sleeved block
How many guys prefer or run dart blocks? How many guys prefer sleeved blocks?
The pros and cons of both. Any dyno tests to see if one makes more power with the same parts. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Dart blocks are just to expensive. There are so many good ls blocks that I can get a hold of for so very cheap that it will cost $1000+ less to sleeve it than get a Dart block. Plus, I cant remember where, but I read an article about a shop that got a Dart block and it still needed a bunch of machine work and there was a pin size hole in one of the sleeves. After I read that I decided never to buy one.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by hondaracing84
(Post 42416343)
Plus, I cant remember where, but I read an article about a shop that got a Dart block and it still needed a bunch of machine work and there was a pin size hole in one of the sleeves. After I read that I decided never to buy one.
Dart blocks = no bueno... |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
^^^ sounds about right. Ill never buy one.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
i thought endyne sold them, with all work done ready to go?
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
No reason to buy a Darton when you can sleeve a stock block and have ~$1500 in it and have something just as good for a fraction of the cost.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
golden eagle for me plz
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
i had a buddy who ran one. wasnt problematic, worked great.
if you know the stuff to take care of, the extra prep work isnt really any big deal.. they are strong strong strong.. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by da_unknown
(Post 42420669)
golden eagle for me plz
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
The only con is the money for a Dart.If you can afford it then no question get one. Some here may say not to but consider who you are taking advice from and what interest they may have in it such as affiliation with a sleeving shop etc.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
dart blocks are great for a high HP build extra webbing suporting the mains thick sleeves. A block designed to take the abuse that we intend to put it thru. Also when looking at the cost vs sleeving a oe block take into consideration the tall deck block that they offer and also look at the cost of having a deck extension put on a oe block and then the price dosent look so bad.
Also the people that complain about a block needing work done to it. Who cares it is a custom block and if you are building a engine the proper way what is a 200-300 extra in machine work to make it work corectly. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by c5R
(Post 42421346)
dart blocks are great for a high HP build extra webbing suporting the mains thick sleeves. A block designed to take the abuse that we intend to put it thru. Also when looking at the cost vs sleeving a oe block take into consideration the tall deck block that they offer and also look at the cost of having a deck extension put on a oe block and then the price dosent look so bad.
Also the people that complain about a block needing work done to it. Who cares it is a custom block and if you are building a engine the proper way what is a 200-300 extra in machine work to make it work corectly. just my $.02 |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I run a dart block after I had nothing put problems with a sleeved block wich was done by a well known company on here , I figured I dont what any problems with sleeves droping or shifting , The dart block also has better cooling passages than a oe block and the bigger webbing is great. It realy dosent take to much much work to the block , a good cleaning and measuring over , hone it only cost me about 250 in machine work.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by 95DC2GS-R
(Post 42421947)
with the coin you have to drop on a Dart block it should already come out of the box working correctly...
just my $.02 |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
A dart block wont make a car faster...why do u need it
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
i have not ran either yet, but based on the power and times that the fastest guys are running on sleeved blocks, why dump the money
most important part of keeping a motor together is the tune, so spend the money for a good tuner |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by 95DC2GS-R
(Post 42420528)
No reason to buy a Darton when you can sleeve a stock block and have ~$1500 in it and have something just as good for a fraction of the cost.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
most of the really fast guys wont use a dart block because they are afraid to get 10-15k wraped up in a engine just to have the block they are using be outlawed the next year so they stick with what they know will be legal. The dart block was well thought over when it was produced. The only reason that it never cought on to be the thing to use is NOPI wouldnt allow you to use it. So it never took off.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Well thats gay hope they dont enforce that law.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by hello1320
(Post 42423173)
A dart block wont make a car faster...why do u need it
I have personally seen WAY to much human error by "big named" companies in sleeving blocks. There is NO comparison to a DART block IMHO. Now, I'm not saying that sleeving never works because it does. But the DART choice is an all around much better one :thumbup: -J |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Golden Eagle FTW
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
i run erl supper deck 2 block
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Yeah, I may be biased, but the dart blocks aren't a bad choice if you have the extra change. But, I would run an ERL sleeved block over a Dart. I've seen both and my mind is set, not to mention, the fact that you can work more closely with an individual sleeving company as opposed to a big name.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
if dart blocks were only a couple of hundred $$ more than a sleeved block i would have to say i would use that. Nothing beats a sleeved block at this point.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Coming from someone that has a 83MM sleeved block, if your only trying to net a little over 500whp I don't see the need to sleeve unless you plan on running it at that power daily.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I bet the voting would be different if it was among people who had actually used both the Dart and a sleeved B block.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I like your answer Jared dont talk bad until you try right.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I had a dart block at my shop and I can say that I was not impressed. After some one else did a complete installation the rod had a knock after just a few hundred miles. I took it appart to install a new crank and rods and found that the mains were in need of line bore. Also the thrust washer recess was not anywhere where it should have been. We had to line bore it and have the thrust washer recessed in deeper to get the right clearance.
So from my one and only experience with the Dart block, I vote for a stock Benson sleaved block. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
if this sport lasts long enough we may need aftermarket castings but right now plenty good is being done with sleeved/OEM/NOS < (new old stock)
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Well, here's my 2 cents....
Sleeved block - less money - more prone to big problems. Why? Sleeved blocks are open deck. Good luck running a big bore and getting that to seal.... 300 bucks worth of head gaskets is not fun. This is especially a problem for high compression or high boost applications as the head gasket is asked to take a bigger beating. Sleeved blocks are prone to coolant leakage problems. 1. Leaking o-rings at the bottom of the seals will require a complete resleeving. $$$ - -this happens more than most know. 2. Dropping/shifting sleeves causes coolant to leak into cylinders causing problems there or compression leaking into coolant... causing problems there... The fix is... resleeving $$$ So, yeah, the Dart block is more expensive than sleeving your oem bottom end. . . but resleeving a bottom end for the second time is more expensive than buying a Dart block the first time. This is stuff to consider... When I build my first motor, I sleeved it. I'm regretting that decision now because it has led to many problems. You can get it done by a reputable builder, but that doesn't guarantee that you won't have any of the above problems... it just lessens the chances. The issue with the head gasket not sealing is not one that even a reputable builder can help you avoid. The closed deck of the Dart block gives your gasket massive sealing room around the cylinders. This is primo when running high comp or boost. Just my 2 cents - having spent much more than that learning it. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I will add... that I also like the Benson sleeved route... If I were to sleeve again, I would use that route for sure. It is the only one that seems like less trouble to me.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I personally run a dart tall block and wouldn't change it for anything, other than the fact that when you get around 84.5-85mm bore with high boost the cheap recommended cometic head gaskets don't seal up very well at all, change it up to a mr.gasket and it's damn near bulletproof
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I've heard from a well known shop not to go with a dart due to when you go high boost you run into oil leak problems anyone heard of this?
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by njebudalla
(Post 42705493)
I will add... that I also like the Benson sleeved route... If I were to sleeve again, I would use that route for sure. It is the only one that seems like less trouble to me.
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Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by njebudalla
(Post 42705417)
Well, here's my 2 cents....
Sleeved block - less money - more prone to big problems. Why? I disagree Sleeved blocks are open deck. Good luck running a big bore and getting that to seal.... 300 bucks worth of head gaskets is not fun. This is especially a problem for high compression or high boost applications as the head gasket is asked to take a bigger beating. Other Sleeved blocks such as DARTON(not DART) have MID(flanged style) or Open Deck. So there are options. No problems even with 86-87bore B-series in All Motor cars. Also boosted 85mm Darton MID blocks at 38psi+, no problems. Sleeved blocks are prone to coolant leakage problems. 1. Leaking o-rings at the bottom of the seals will require a complete resleeving. $$$ - -this happens more than most know. Dang, who did your sleeving? 2. Dropping/shifting sleeves causes coolant to leak into cylinders causing problems there or compression leaking into coolant... causing problems there... The fix is... resleeving $$$ So, yeah, the Dart block is more expensive than sleeving your oem bottom end. . . but resleeving a bottom end for the second time is more expensive than buying a Dart block the first time. This is stuff to consider... When I build my first motor, I sleeved it. I'm regretting that decision now because it has led to many problems. You can get it done by a reputable builder, but that doesn't guarantee that you won't have any of the above problems... it just lessens the chances. The issue with the head gasket not sealing is not one that even a reputable builder can help you avoid. The closed deck of the Dart block gives your gasket massive sealing room around the cylinders. This is primo when running high comp or boost. Just my 2 cents - having spent much more than that learning it. If your work was done correctly, you wouldn't have had those problems. We use DARTON MID sleeves in alot of our own engines and other customer's builds for years. Our own race car ran 2 years, 200+ passes at 35+psi. At least 100 of those passes were 9.7-9.8 sec runs. Our driver/car was VERY consistent with the car and it never had issues. That engine still ran until the end of that season. I'm sure it could have done more passes, we just just went with a new engine after that season and used that old one as our backup. Also on a DARTON MID sleeve, lets say had a problem with the piston breaking, detonating, etc. and damaged the sleeves. The Darton MID can be replaced without having to redo the whole block. You can even take out the MID sleeves and put it in another block if you wanted to. I just feel that DARTON MID sleeves are underrated by many people or there's alot of Myths about it. Its a very well priced out sleeve setup. NO LINE HONING needed for the MID setup. So you can get a fully done, machined and ready to use block for about $1300.00 Thats a good price range for a top notch product in my book. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
My friend had a dart block, untill his motor blew, we still dont quite know what happened, however the block is done.
He has also had darton mid in the past and never had a single issue with it, Another one his freinds had a benson block, dropped a sleeve on the dyno. He told me he would no issue going with a dart block again, he just isnt sure yet. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
People screw thing up all the time, that doesn't mean the things are not good.
If you are not sending your block to the corner machine shop, than you won't have issues. Usually. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
Originally Posted by victor.ek4
(Post 42955140)
People screw thing up all the time, that doesn't mean the things are not good.
If you are not sending your block to the corner machine shop, than you won't have issues. Usually. |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
I have had Many exsperances with diffrent sleeves. I have seen Dart blocks blow holes in them with very little power but I have seen the same thing done with sleeved blocks..(also seen alot of cars make huge power with both) I have also seen stock blocks hold 20+ psi! (a few will do it) Ever heard of LA sleeves? they make dart sleeves or Eagle I can recall right now. If you want a cost effective sleeve thats the way to go, I have personaly seen them run 1100whp in a full drag car (look up Brent from PFI's civic) plus you cant beat the 850 for a compleat sleeve and ready to go block... Its nice to get your block back and just bolt it up not havint to take it to shop to have to get shit honed!
My2 cents $800 for a sleeved block is nice and if it were to blow, so be it... Go get another, its the price you pay to have something with big numbers welcome to Racing !! |
Re: Dart vs sleeved block
if some of u could afford it u would of bought it, plain & simple. i know i would of. my next motor will be for sure.
i know this, there are lot of companies sleeving blocks anymore & alot more issues go with it. seems like rushin rulet. |
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