ive been somewhat doing my research and stuff but audio and electrics are just so confusing with all the ohms and voice coils. i might be purchassing a sub box with dual 10w3v2. the subs are wired in a way that there is a single pair of connectors for wiring the sub box to the amp. anyways my question is what amp will power 2 JL 10w3v2 dual 4 ohms? do i need to look for something that can push 600W rms x 1 @ 4 ohm or 600w rms x 1 @ 2 ohms? what brands would you guys recommend for mono amps between $200-$300?

 

Is it a box like this... http://mobile.jlaudio.com/prod...d=297 or like this... http://mobile.jlaudio.com/prod...d=313 if so the final load is 4 ohms and a mono block sub amp that makes 600W-700W RMS into a 4ohm load will do the job.

If the box you have is a custom box the final load, [depending on how its wired] may be 1 ohm, [VCs and speakers wired in parallel] 4 ohm, [VCs wired in parallel and speakers wired in series or a better way, VCs wired in series and speakers wired in parallel] and although unlikely 16 ohms, [VCs and speakers wired in series], if you are not sure, check it with a multimeter. 94

 

the box is the one in the second link

 

would it cost less to buy a 2 channel amp and bridge it into a single channel capable of 600-700 watts at 4 ohm?

 

Not really, a bridgeable 2ch. amp will cost the same as a mono block sub amp everything else being equal, the advantage of the sub amp is it will normally have a bigger power supply in it compared to a 2ch. full range amp, [even if the 2ch. is bridgeable and has a L/P filter for running a sub] 94

 

thanks. how much would a decent amp cost me?

 

would http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-ACOU...wItem be a good choice?

 

also, what if i were to run 500w x 1 @4ohm to these subs? i read that underpowering subs can cause them to blow because people tend to turn up the gains because they can't hear the amount of bass they want. but is 500w or even 400w going to two 10w3v2 subs blow?


Modified by DLudist at 7:03 PM 4/22/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Not really, a bridgeable 2ch. amp will cost the same as a mono block sub amp everything else being equal, the advantage of the sub amp is it will normally have a bigger power supply in it compared to a 2ch. full range amp, [even if the 2ch. is bridgeable and has a L/P filter for running a sub] 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

from what i understand, bridging a 2 channel amp will allow for more wattage output. for example, an amp can power 150w rms x 2 @ 4ohm and the same amp can do 600w x 1 @ 4ohm in bridged moce. wouldnt a 2 channel wired into a single channel be less expensive than a similar one channel amp?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DLudist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks. how much would a decent amp cost me?</TD></TR></TABLE> $200-$500

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DLudist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-ACOU...wItem be a good choice?</TD></TR></TABLE> I don't know about a good choice, but it will do the job 1x600W RMS into 4 ohms, exactly what the subs need.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DLudist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, what if i were to run 500w x 1 @4ohm to these subs? i read that underpowering subs can cause them to blow because people tend to turn up the gains because they can't hear the amount of bass they want. but is 500w or even 400w going to two 10w3v2 subs blow?


Modified by DLudist at 7:03 PM 4/22/2006</TD></TR></TABLE> You can run 500W or 400W to your subs all day long and not have any problems, under-powering speakers, [subs] does not hurt the speaker, it's when you overdrive the amp into constant clipping that damage will occur, in the form of burnt VCs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DLudist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

from what i understand, bridging a 2 channel amp will allow for more wattage output. for example, an amp can power 150w rms x 2 @ 4ohm and the same amp can do 600w x 1 @ 4ohm in bridged moce. wouldnt a 2 channel wired into a single channel be less expensive than a similar one channel amp?</TD></TR></TABLE> Well there are many ways to fudge the numbers, but if you look at most amp spec sheets you will see that bridging a 2 ch. amp into the same load gets you the same amount of wattage, a 2x50W RMS into 4 ohms becomes a 1x100W RMS into 4 ohms, a 2x150W RMS into 4 ohms becomes a 1x300W RMS into 4 ohms, it depends on the amp, [what type of amp it is] and as the example you suggest, you can have an amp that is 2x45W RMS into 4 ohms and 2x75W RMS into 2 ohms and 1x150W RMS into 4 ohms, [same wattage at 4 ohms mono as it is into 2 ohms in 2ch. mode] However when you see a spec like 2x125W RMS into 4 ohms and "bridged power into 4 ohms 1x800W, you will also see the lack of the "RMS", the 800W is the max/peak power the amp will make, not the RMS power, when it is bridged.
There are many kinds of amps out there, even some that make the same amount of RMS power x2 into 1.5-4 ohms and 3-8 ohms when bridged.

Other then the 2x125W RMS into 4 ohms and 800W bridged, [Boss amp] the other examples are JL Audio amps, [300/2 and e2150] in the end you will get what you pay for, even that 2ch. amp that will make "more" wattage bridged into 4 ohms then twice as much as what it makes into 4 ohms in 2ch. mode, I will use your example 2x150W RMS into 4 ohms or 1x600W RMS into 4 ohms, [bridged] is not the same amp as the 1x600W RMS into 4 ohms mono block sub amp, if it was, it probably cost twice as much as the 600W mono block sub amp. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If the box you have is a custom box the final load, [depending on how its wired] may be 1 ohm, [VCs and speakers wired in parallel] 4 ohm, [VCs wired in parallel and speakers wired in series or a better way, VCs wired in series and speakers wired in parallel] and although unlikely 16 ohms, [VCs and speakers wired in series], if you are not sure, check it with a multimeter. 94 </TD></TR></TABLE>

First you need a sine wave generator and then measure the voltage that is proportional to the impedence of the speaker. Just measuring the resistance of the coil will only give you the DC coil resistance, not the impedence of the speaker to an amp. 95

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DireFire34 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

First you need a sine wave generator and then measure the voltage that is proportional to the impedance of the speaker. Just measuring the resistance of the coil will only give you the DC coil resistance, not the impedance of the speaker to an amp. 95</TD></TR></TABLE> So your saying if I put a multimeter on a speaker and it gives me a reading of 6.94 ohms, [Re of 10W3v2-D4 VCs wired in series] I can't assume that I have a DVC 4 ohm speaker? 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DireFire34 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

First you need a sine wave generator and then measure the voltage that is proportional to the impedence of the speaker. Just measuring the resistance of the coil will only give you the DC coil resistance, not the impedence of the speaker to an amp. 95</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with him<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DireFire34 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

[QUOTE=fcm] So your saying if I put a multimeter on a speaker and it gives me a reading of 6.94 ohms, [Re of 10W3v2-D4 VCs wired in series] I can't assume that I have a DVC 4 ohm speaker? 94 </TD></TR></TABLE>

That wouldnt be a good idea. thats not the impedence given on a AC circuit. My Infinity subs have a DC coil rating of 1.83(measured 1.7 myself but itested it with a piece of crap VOM). Yet it is a 4 ohm speaker. The DC impedence of the voice coil is used in finding the nominal impedence of the driver tho.

If the impedence of the voice coil is 6.94, it is probably an 8ohm speaker nominally. You cna get a very rouch guess of what the nominal impedence by multiplying the DC impedence by 1.3, which in ur case gives 9 ohms but 8 ohms is the closes normal nominal imedence. The reason is that your voice coil is an inductor, the voice coil DC resistance is only about 70% of the nominal impedence. This, ofcource, is different with every speaker so the exact figure of 70% is a very rough estimate. To do a correct evaluation of a speakers load, you will need a sin wave generator, pot(no not the drug), and a quality VOM.

Or just look on the data sheet of the sub would work as well. (easiest)


Modified by imadigitalgod at 9:07 AM 4/24/2006


Modified by imadigitalgod at 9:09 AM 4/24/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imadigitalgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree with him

That wouldnt be a good idea. thats not the impedence given on a AC circuit. My Infinity subs have a DC coil rating of 1.83(measured 1.7 myself but itested it with a piece of crap VOM). Yet it is a 4 ohm speaker. The DC impedence of the voice coil is used in finding the nominal impedence of the driver tho.

If the impedence of the voice coil is 6.94, it is probably an 8ohm speaker nominally. You cna get a very rouch guess of what the nominal impedence by multiplying the DC impedence by 1.3, which in ur case gives 9 ohms but 8 ohms is the closes normal nominal imedence. The reason is that your voice coil is an inductor, the voice coil DC resistance is only about 70% of the nominal impedence. This, ofcource, is different with every speaker so the exact figure of 70% is a very rough estimate. To do a correct evaluation of a speakers load, you will need a sin wave generator, pot(no not the drug), and a quality VOM.

Or just look on the data sheet of the sub would work as well. (easiest)


Modified by imadigitalgod at 9:07 AM 4/24/2006


Modified by imadigitalgod at 9:09 AM 4/24/2006</TD></TR></TABLE> F*#k one no0b after another, read the post, the 6.94 ohms is the re of the 10W3v2-D4, [VCs wired in series] and the 10W3v2-D4 is a DVC 4 ohm sub, and yes the re can be more or less then what the manufacturer "designates" as the VCs impedance, for over 30 years I have used a multimeter to see what the impedance of speakers are, and in that 30 + years I have found that if it reads close to 2 it's a 2 ohm VC, if it reads close to 4 it's a 4 ohm VC, if it reads close to 6 it's a 6 ohm VC, if it reads close to 8 it's an 8 ohm VC, so it's a pretty good test, or have I just been lucky all these years? 94

 

lol. fcm, thanks for answering my questions

 

wired in series, the 10W3v2-D4 is rated at 8ohms, right? According to what you say"if it reads close to 6 it's a 6 ohm VC, if it reads close to 8 it's an 8 ohm VC", the sub would be a 6 ohm sub because 6.94 is closer to 6 than to 8.
I always use the exact measurement way because my "4ohm" sub that i have is has a Re of 1.83 and a true nominal impedence of 3.1ohms. you cant exactly measure that iwth just using a multimeter alone.




Modified by DireFire34 at 7:37 PM 4/26/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DireFire34 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wired in series, the 10W3v2-D4 is rated at 8ohms, right? According to what you say"if it reads close to 6 it's a 6 ohm VC, if it reads close to 8 it's an 8 ohm VC", the sub would be a 6 ohm sub because 6.94 is closer to 6 than to 8.
I always use the exact measurement way because my "4ohm" sub that i have is has a Re of 1.83 and a true nominal impedence of 3.1ohms. you cant exactly measure that iwth just using a multimeter alone.


Modified by DireFire34 at 7:37 PM 4/26/2006</TD></TR></TABLE> NO the 10W3v2-D4 is rated as a DVC 4 ohm it has an re of 6. 94 when the 2 VCs are wired in series, that is off the spec sheet for that sub, if you meter each VC you get a reading of 3.67 and 3.64, [on the one I am metering right now] And even if I didn't know they were 4 ohm VCs I would assume they were, because both 3.67 and/or 3.64 are closer to 4 ohms then they are to 3 ohms, when I wire the VCs in series I get a reading of 7.17, [again on the sub I am testing right now] and that is closer to 8 ohms then then it is to 6 ohms] and I bet if I go and get another 10W3v2-D6, I will get slightly diff. readings, but they will also lead me to believe it is a DVC 4 ohm sub.
As I said I have been doing this for over 30 years, and as a quick easy test to determine the impedance the manufacturer is designating the speaker as, or what the final load is when 2 or more speakers are wired together, it has yet to fail me.
It may not be right on the button, but it's close enough to count. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> NO the 10W3v2-D4 is rated as a DVC 4 ohm it has an re of 6. 94 when the 2 VCs are wired in series, that is off the spec sheet for that sub, if you meter each VC you get a reading of 3.67 and 3.64, [on the one I am metering right now] And even if I didn't know they were 4 ohm VCs I would assume they were, because both 3.67 and/or 3.64 are closer to 4 ohms then they are to 3 ohms, when I wire the VCs in series I get a reading of 7.17, [again on the sub I am testing right now] and that is closer to 8 ohms then then it is to 6 ohms] and I bet if I go and get another 10W3v2-D6, I will get slightly diff. readings, but they will also lead me to believe it is a DVC 4 ohm sub.
As I said I have been doing this for over 30 years, and as a quick easy test to determine the impedance the manufacturer is designating the speaker as, or what the final load is when 2 or more speakers are wired together, it has yet to fail me.
It may not be right on the button, but it's close enough to count. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand what you are saying and if u get a reading of 7.17 that would be closer to 8.

The site says the Re is 6.94 with "***" by it. the "***" says "Re (DC resistance) is measured with the voice coils in series, for parallel-wired specification divide Re by 4. All other specifications remain the same. "

I know all subs wont read exactly the same(as when u get 7.17ohms and the factory gets 6.94) I know the way you do it will generally work but if someone inexperienced does get what the factory is getting they might assume its a 6ohm

or they could just find the data sheet for the sub to see what the factory rates is the nominal impedence (if they dont know what its nominal impedence is)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DireFire34 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know the way you do it will generally work but if someone inexperienced does get what the factory is getting they might assume its a 6ohm
</TD></TR></TABLE> If you had read all the posts a little closer you would have noticed that I was asking him to check for me, I already knew what the impedance of the sub was, my question to him was to get an idea of how the speakers and VCs were wired if they were in a custom cabinet, you even quoted me, telling him the possible final loads with those speakers, what I didn't want to do is have him wire an amp that is not stable below 4 ohms to a 1 ohm final load, and the easiest way for me to know that is for him to test with a meter, I would be willing to bet he does not have a sine wave generator, in fact I would be willing to bet all people that are on H/T looking for help on their audio systems do not have one, if they did it's just as good a be that they don't have to ask for help, in fact I would be willing to bet 75% or more don't even have a multimeter.

So some no0b jumping in and telling them not to do something, [it will not work, it's not a good idea, you have to do this or that, when in fact it would have been the best thing to do to get the info I needed to give him the help he needed and was asking for] does nothing but confuse the issue and take up space and helps no one.
So far all I have seen from you is crap, and then you saying it was somebody saying some of the thing using your name because you had not logged off now I see you have again admitted it was you, [re: Sony amp] but you didn't mean it, kind of makes taking advice from you a crap shoot, [no pun intended] 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So some no0b jumping in and telling them not to do something, </TD></TR></TABLE>
lol i wouldnt quite say that im a 'noob'.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would be willing to bet he does not have a sine wave generator, in fact I would be willing to bet all people that are on H/T looking for help on their audio systems do not have one, if they did it's just as good a be that they don't have to ask for help, in fact I would be willing to bet 75% or more don't even have a multimeter.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well then I have the right tools for the job to get the exact nominal impedence for my speakers, not just rounding to the typical 4 or 8 ohm speakers.

There are ways to do it with a reg cd player/amp tho. obviously the cd player used to test reg speakers, the amp used to test the subs. not as exact of measurement but pretty close.

Everyone should atleast have a cheap multimeter.




Modified by DireFire234 at 2:07 AM 4/27/2006