i am having trouble finding a ground spot for my sony xplod amp in my 94 integra. i initially used the bolt that holds down the bottom rear seats, i am mounting this amp on my rear passenger seatback. my ground wire is only 3ft long. i sanded down the area to metal and the bolt, but the "offset" light on my amp keeps lighting up, which means a poor secured ground.

please help, the amp is sony xm-1502sx if that helps. thanks

 

First try not having such a long ground wire. You should try and make it as short as possible. Next, ensure your bolt to ground is good and tight. Nothing more frustrating than a loose ground wire.

You could also try relocating the amp to a different spot.

Just trying to help here

 

Use the seatbelt bolt, although the seatback bracket bolts should work, did you beef up ground at the batt. 94

 

[QUOTE=dc2gsr94 my ground wire is only 3ft long[/QUOTE]


only?

 

Ideally it should be shorter than that, check your crimping though because I wouldn't think an amp would shut down just because the ground was too long.

 

pull up the carpet in a good spot near the amp, sand off a smal section of paint about the size of the ring terminal down to bare metal, shoot about three panhead self-tap screws through the middle of the ring terminal to hold it, or one on the inside and two outside for 8g or smaller wire. The thicker the metal and closer to the subframe rails you get the better, just make sure you have clearance first by not going over top the gas tank. Or just use small 1/2" screws.


It may not matter in small(er) systems, but the less restriction you have on the ground the better for your amp and electrical system...period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phat_Jax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pull up the carpet in a good spot near the amp, sand off a smal section of paint about the size of the ring terminal down to bare metal, shoot about three panhead self-tap screws through the middle of the ring terminal to hold it, or one on the inside and two outside for 8g or smaller wire. The thicker the metal and closer to the subframe rails you get the better, just make sure you have clearance first by not going over top the gas tank. Or just use small 1/2" screws.


It may not matter in small(er) systems, but the less restriction you have on the ground the better for your amp and electrical system...period.</TD></TR></TABLE> Why drill holes in your car when there are so many good places with nuts or bolts that go into sub frame already Like I and others have said, check the ground, solder all the connections, keep the ground short , beef up ground at batt. 94

 

I'm just saying that plain and simple that seat bolts do not make proper grounding points...the resistance is just higher.

For example, about a month ago a guy came into the shop who was using the seat bolt method...even sanded away paint around the bolt. The reason he was in the shop? To pick up new sets of RCA's because they MELTED from being zip-tied to his ground wire near the amp and singed the carpet over the wire...his wire (4g Lightning about 12-14" long) even had oxidation in the plastic insulation. He had installed the system earlier that week.

We redid the ground for him as I discribed, and I just saw him the other day...with no problems. It might not be that way in all cars, but do you really think that 3 little holes matter? I agree that the seat bolts might work for amplifiers that pull less current, but this was on a system whose power wire is fused at 60A.

Anyway, I've said my piece on it, that wasn't the first melted ground I've seen by far either, just an example. All I know is that I would never trust either of my systems to the seat bolt method. Ever seen the shipping charge for 12 amps that are all 6.5"x2"x15.5"??? It isn't pretty...

 

Check out this link for good info about ground connections...

http://www.bcae1.com/battgrnd.htm

As quoted from that page...

"The seat belt bolts are rarely a good place to ground your equipment. Sometimes there will be a thick tar like substance (used for waterproofing) that will prevent you from getting a proper ground. Even if there is no sealant, the connection may be less than perfect because the hardened steel seat belt bolts (relatively high resistance) go into a hardened steel nut that's pressed into a piece of stamped steel that's spot welded to the bottom of the vehicle (not exactly a great electrical connection)."

 

my bad, i don't know where i got that number from. but its actually 1ft long.. so that limits my range of ground spots.. my connections are soldered. any more ideas? thanks so far

 

Just use a wire brush on a drill or sand out the metal and use a good size bolt with locking washer and tight up good. Ground wire should not exceed 1.5 feet. Crimp connectors well. That's it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kontai69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check out this link for good info about ground connections...

http://www.bcae1.com/battgrnd.htm

As quoted from that page...

"The seat belt bolts are rarely a good place to ground your equipment. Sometimes there will be a thick tar like substance (used for waterproofing) that will prevent you from getting a proper ground. Even if there is no sealant, the connection may be less than perfect because the hardened steel seat belt bolts (relatively high resistance) go into a hardened steel nut that's pressed into a piece of stamped steel that's spot welded to the bottom of the vehicle (not exactly a great electrical connection)."</TD></TR></TABLE> As quoted from the same page
Vehicle floor pan
The vehicle floor pan is, on many vehicles , a single piece of stamped sheet metal that runs from the trunk of the the vehicle to the firewall. It is the best return path of the vehicle's chassis. when you ground any electrical accessories [including your amplifiers],ground them to the floor pan.

All I'm saying is use what is already there , using a sheetmetal screw that you can torque to say 5 lbs before it strips, to the floor pan is not as good as a bolt that you can torque to 25 or 50 lbs to the same floor pan. take my word for it, I have been installing for 30 years

 

I agree...I can't tell how many cars show up at my shop with a system
that is "wired right",but isn't playing. The seat bolt method..while quick is
the worst place to ground an amp. A bolt is best,but if you can't do it ( and you
have a 'low powered' system a screw into the sheet metal( as long as its scrapped
bare). One thing top consider is the ground from the battery. If you are running
a 8 ga wire or larger.. [B] You must [B/] duplicate the same guage from the
battery's Neg post to the frame of the car. You amp will run cooler and have
a better current flow.

Hope this helps. Happy Installing

 

Interesting I should probobly move my ground wire, right now it's on the seat back bolt, What about the spare tire bolt? is that any good? Also your supposed to put some greese on the connection when your done so it doesn't corrode right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by audioroach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree...I can't tell how many cars show up at my shop with a system
that is "wired right",but isn't playing. The seat bolt method..while quick is
the worst place to ground an amp. A bolt is best,but if you can't do it ( and you
have a 'low powered' system a screw into the sheet metal( as long as its scrapped
bare). One thing top consider is the ground from the battery. If you are running
a 8 ga wire or larger.. [B] You must [B/] duplicate the same guage from the
battery's Neg post to the frame of the car. You amp will run cooler and have
a better current flow.

Hope this helps. Happy Installing</TD></TR></TABLE> If a bolt is best, then why is a seat "bolt" the worst? 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If a bolt is best, then why is a seat "bolt" the worst? 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's because of two things mostly.

The seat bolt and nut are usually made out of hardened galvanized steel or some other higher resistance metal. Then, there's the fact that the nut or bolt is welded to the mounting point. This means that the current must flow past the weld, and through severely stressed metal.

While it doesn't seem like a big deal, it is significant enough to be able to notice.
Usually if you're pulling more than about 30 Amps on 4g wire you'll start to notice that your wires start to get hot to the touch.

Why do you think you can't run a 500+ Wrms on 8g wire very well? Because Resistance changes according to the amount of Amperage that is flowing through any circuit.

Think of it in terms of drinking a milkshake through a straw, same physics principles apply as in electronics. When a part of a strawberry is stuck in the straw, sure...you can still get some milkshake through, but by the time you get what you want you're about to pass out. But if you had just been trying to get a little out then you would be fine. The strawberry is the same thing as the seat bolt connection, sure, it allows some through, but as you start to really pull current through you'll begin to stress everything on the circuit. AKA: Battery, amp, alternator, wiring, all the things the battery is connected to, etc....

Using a simple bolt and nut driven through a blank space of sheet metal gives you the ability to torque to high lb-ft without causing any excess resistance. That's why he said that a bolt is best. Although with the method I've described up above, I have never had even a loose ground. Maybe it's just the quality of the screws I use???

 

Well ****, I'm going to have to get hold of all those people that I have done amp installs for ,and used the seatbolts as grounds, and all the ones that came into my shop with amp problems, that I ended up moveing the grounds to seat bolts or other studs or bolts to fix, as most of the problems, other then the amp itself, were poor grounds,[ lots of loose sheetmetal screws] and tell them that I have made a mistake in grounding and please would they come in so I can fix it , gee after 30 years and thousands of amp installs, and every conceivable why of grounding them, I have ended up with the wrong, worst way of doing it.

So I understand, its the thick tar like substance, [that I wouldn't remove] or the high resistance hardened bolts, or the equally high resistance nuts, that are welded to the floor pan, stressing the metal, [ that I am getting in between the ring term. and the floor pan] that is causing the problem.

What a crock of **** , you kids now a days just crack me up with this ****, someone spoon feeds you this crap , and you believe it .

A ring terminal, contacting as much of its surface onto the bare metal of the floor pan ,as tight as possible ,[keeping air out ] is the best and most reliable ground you can give an amp. and useing nuts and bolts that are in the car already,that allow you to do this, is the" best "way to do it. end of story. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What a crock of **** , you kids now a days just crack me up with this ****, someone spoon feeds you this crap , and you believe it .</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, so the fact that I learned car audio from, and worked alongside IASCA world champions, who were the first people to EVER score a perfect 40 on an RTA in competition...people who are still known by name in competition circles...that makes me a little kid that's full of ****? Have YOU ever been invited to SBN for a free hotel stay in an Adam's Mark suite just because they want your personal car to sit in their booth for the indoor show? Well I have. I never stated that I am the end-all-be-all of car audio knowledge, I just added my PERSONAL experiences to the debate...

I never said that it wouldn't work, it's just not a quality connection for the circuit which makes it harder on the electrical system.


BTW: Way to go, you imparted your years of experience off onto us with the good 'ol "I'm right, so STFU you little peons" approach. That makes you look soooo much smarter than the rest of us......***...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phat_Jax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Because Resistance changes according to the amount of Amperage that is flowing through any circuit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

excuse me?? where did you come up with this?? expand a little please

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">excuse me?? where did you come up with this?? expand a little please</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's simple physics. Power, voltage, current, and resistance are all related by formulas, just as energy, force, velocity, and friction are in kinetics. Power is the energy, voltage is a force, current is a velocity, and resistance is a dissipation of energy, just as friction, through heat, light, etc...

Think of it as water getting siphoned through a hose...simple physics. It's the same as electrons getting pulled through a conductor. Now what happens when you are pulling more amounts of water through the same hose at a faster rate? Everything changes, the voltage, resistance, current. A circuit is an ever changing environment just like the world around us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Well ****, I'm going to have to get hold of all those people that I have done amp installs for ,and used the seatbolts as grounds, and all the ones that came into my shop with amp problems, that I ended up moveing the grounds to seat bolts or other studs or bolts to fix, as most of the problems, other then the amp itself, were poor grounds,[ lots of loose sheetmetal screws] and tell them that I have made a mistake in grounding and please would they come in so I can fix it , gee after 30 years and thousands of amp installs, and every conceivable why of grounding them, I have ended up with the wrong, worst way of doing it.

So I understand, its the thick tar like substance, [that I wouldn't remove] or the high resistance hardened bolts, or the equally high resistance nuts, that are welded to the floor pan, stressing the metal, [ that I am getting in between the ring term. and the floor pan] that is causing the problem.

What a crock of **** , you kids now a days just crack me up with this ****, someone spoon feeds you this crap , and you believe it .

A ring terminal, contacting as much of its surface onto the bare metal of the floor pan ,as tight as possible ,[keeping air out ] is the best and most reliable ground you can give an amp. and useing nuts and bolts that are in the car already,that allow you to do this, is the" best "way to do it. end of story. 94 </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, man you crack me up!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phat_Jax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oh, so the fact that I learned car audio from, and worked alongside IASCA world champions, who were the first people to EVER score a perfect 40 on an RTA in competition...people who are still known by name in competition circles...that makes me a little kid that's full of ****? Have YOU ever been invited to SBN for a free hotel stay in an Adam's Mark suite just because they want your personal car to sit in their booth for the indoor show? Well I have. I never stated that I am the end-all-be-all of car audio knowledge, I just added my PERSONAL experiences to the debate...

I never said that it wouldn't work, it's just not a quality connection for the circuit which makes it harder on the electrical system.


BTW: Way to go, you imparted your years of experience off onto us with the good 'ol "I'm right, so STFU you little peons" approach. That makes you look soooo much smarter than the rest of us......***... </TD></TR></TABLE> First, I never called you a little kid, I said "you kids now a days just crack me up " second I didnt say you were full of ****, I said what you,[ and others on this thred] are saying was a crock of ****, and yes I have had my car or cars that I have done the installs on, in more then a few Canadian CES and Alpine of Canada and other trade shows.

And as for "imparting" my years of experience all I did was say from experience the best way to do it , I don't see STFU or little peons,or I'm right , that would be your opinion of what I said. so don't get your undies in a knot.

Explain how current must flow past a weld and severely stressed metal, the nut is welded to the under side of the floor pan, the ring terminal is in direct contact with the top side of the floor pan,and held up against the floor pan by a bolt, or in most cases a not so hardened ungalvanized seat bracket [cold rolled steel] that is held down with a bolt against the top of the ring terminal at 30+ ft lb, what weld is the current haveing to pass through ? that is what I am talking about, crap and ****. Now who looks sooooo much smarter then the rest of us, what you need is a little respect for your elders. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Phat_Jax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's simple physics. Power, voltage, current, and resistance are all related by formulas, just as energy, force, velocity, and friction are in kinetics. Power is the energy, voltage is a force, current is a velocity, and resistance is a dissipation of energy, just as friction, through heat, light, etc...

Think of it as water getting siphoned through a hose...simple physics. It's the same as electrons getting pulled through a conductor. Now what happens when you are pulling more amounts of water through the same hose at a faster rate? Everything changes, the voltage, resistance, current. A circuit is an ever changing environment just like the world around us.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the resistance will only change with temperature. as the current increases the power goes up and the voltage goes up. if you want to move more electrons through a conductor you have to either decrease the resistance (simply not possible) or increase the voltage. resistance is one thing in the circuit that will remain constant. the impedence will change with the position of the cone though.