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"Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Lets get some education going..
We all know oil is for lubication but whats "its" other job.. to lubericate and to...? Here's a hint, it helps cleans your engine. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Detergents?
I would say oil performs a third function also as it helps to soak up some and I say "some" of the heat from the engine while in operation (like the BVTEC oil squiters acting on bottom of pistons) although unless your using an oilcooler to remove most of that convection then much of that heat is recycled through the engine as oil is pumped through it so theirs probably only a marginal cooling effects from the oil as the oil probably releases much of the convection near the galleys and uptop in the valvetrain area I would presume. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
this thread is not that informative..
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by RaceCarRyne
(Post 40088161)
this thread is not that informative..
Why does oil turn black..? Whats oils other job besides to lubericate.. not hard if you think alittle bit.. i even gave you a hint. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40088094)
Detergents?
I would say oil performs a third function also as it helps to soak up some and I say "some" of the heat from the engine while in operation (like the BVTEC oil squiters acting on bottom of pistons) although unless your using an oilcooler to remove most of that convection then much of that heat is recycled through the engine as oil is pumped through it so theirs probably only a marginal cooling effects from the oil as the oil probably releases much of the convection near the galleys and uptop in the valvetrain area I would presume. Oil soaks some heat, your correct, but what else does it soak up.. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Oil is a tremendous coolant. In the engine, the oil cools the underside of the pistons, valve springs, camshaft, rods, crankshaft and bearings. The oil picks up the heat from the combustion of fuel, as well as friction, and takes it away (no matter how good the oil may be, there is always friction). The volume of the oil in the crankcase helps transfer the heat, but where a car/truck is used in high temperature climates, for hauling trailers or heavy loads, an engine oil cooler is sometimes recommended.
Oil serves as a sealant, filling the microscopic ridges and valleys found in any metal surface, increasing the engine's efficiency |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 40088281)
Your on the right track..
Oil soaks some heat, your correct, but what else does it soak up.. Reguarding detergents in oil heres an interesting comment on how having too little or too much detergent can be harmful with motor oils in some motors. "Inadequate detergent will result in gum and lacquer clinging to the hotter engine components - too much detergent can cause a build up of metallic ash in the combustion chambers of older engines. In older engines with traditionally high oil consumption, this will cause detonation and pinking. In older engines where the carbon has built up over a number of years the detergents can also have a scouring effect causing the carbon to flake off, blocking up oil galleries and spray jets. High levels of detergent will "wash" traces of carbon from seals and gaskets, revealing oil leaks." http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9014112&conten tId=7027140 |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Hate to be "ignorant" and a "kid"
But, seems like the OP is getting his education from the community. Thanks for starting the thread either way. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by BeniRacing
(Post 40088592)
Hate to be "ignorant" and a "kid"
But, seems like the OP is getting his education from the community. Thanks for starting the thread either way. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40088624)
Negative, he's just trying to strike up an intelligent discussion by asking questions first as most who come through this forum are only looking for quick anwers and solutions to their current situations/problems and rarely want to have discussions on their own understandings or findings.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by BeniRacing
(Post 40088592)
Hate to be "ignorant" and a "kid"
But, seems like the OP is getting his education from the community. Thanks for starting the thread either way. Every reply to any thread, is always ignorant from you.. you have it set in your head that your always right and everything you say is just.. that.... i'm trying to start a intelligent conversation. I know about oil.. and what it does and how it works.. majority of this community are asking questions.. "which oil do use in this motor" Well this discussion is for that. Oil isn't just a lubericate. If you knew anything you'd know your oil cleans your engine.. it soaks up dirtiness from the motor ... Why do you think oil turns black? Its not because your motors dirty neither.. its from gas getting into the oil.. Oil plays a huge part in an engine and alot bigger then most realize. Anyone know the difference between regular oil and syn? |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
Anyone know the difference between regular oil and syn? |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 40088876)
Anyone know the difference between regular oil and syn?
Without looking it up, I believe synthetic oil has a better or specifically refined molecular structure to help prolong breakdown from shearing and heat that contributes to longer uses between change intervals as far as my understanding... |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
What good is oil if it last forever, its all about the money IMO. But yes oil cools and cleans the motor.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 40088876)
..?
Every reply to any thread, is always ignorant from you.. you have it set in your head that your always right and everything you say is just.. that.... i'm trying to start a intelligent conversation. I know about oil.. and what it does and how it works.. majority of this community are asking questions.. "which oil do use in this motor" Well this discussion is for that. Oil isn't just a lubericate. If you knew anything you'd know your oil cleans your engine.. it soaks up dirtiness from the motor ... Why do you think oil turns black? Its not because your motors dirty neither.. its from gas getting into the oil.. Oil plays a huge part in an engine and alot bigger then most realize. Anyone know the difference between regular oil and syn? Pronunciation: \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\ Function: adjective Date: 14th century 1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors> 2 : unaware, uninformed I have correct information and knowledge.... The jobs of motor oil are to clean, cool, seal and lubricate. Hard to be ignorant when I am "Informed" |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40088548)
Carbon deposits? As far as the blackening of oil I've also understood the breakdown process of oil to be a combination of heat and molecular shearing from fast moving parts within an engine.
My reasoning would be gear oil (85w-140). When it gets old and needs to replaced it doesnt really turn black, so i would think that something in the engine would also contribute to oil turning black. Granted, motor oil likely sees much higher temps than differential's do on trucks, awd cars, etc. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by h22ej8
(Post 40090859)
I'll be honest, i know little about exactly what all oil does. However, i don't understand this logic.
My reasoning would be gear oil (85w-140). When it gets old and needs to replaced it doesnt really turn black, so i would think that something in the engine would also contribute to oil turning black. Granted, motor oil likely sees much higher temps than differential's do on trucks, awd cars, etc. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by BeniRacing
(Post 40090407)
Main Entry: ig·no·rant
Pronunciation: \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\ Function: adjective Date: 14th century 1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors> 2 : unaware, uninformed I have correct information and knowledge.... The jobs of motor oil are to clean, cool, seal and lubricate. Hard to be ignorant when I am "Informed" For the betterment of this discuss and the forum reguardless of how big of a twatrag i think you are.. i'ma not fight with you, every thread i'm in you always have something to say, if its logical and contributes to the subject great.. stop taking cheap shots at a person over the internet.. its quite annoying and childish. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by h22ej8
(Post 40090859)
I'll be honest, i know little about exactly what all oil does. However, i don't understand this logic.
My reasoning would be gear oil (85w-140). When it gets old and needs to replaced it doesnt really turn black, so i would think that something in the engine would also contribute to oil turning black. Granted, motor oil likely sees much higher temps than differential's do on trucks, awd cars, etc. What I was unsure of is if the breakdown from heat and shearing from moving parts contributed to its blackening as well. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40091364)
I should have worded that differently. I'll be the first to say that I know about as much as any average joe when it comes to oil (with a fair understanding of viscosity grades), so with that said the blackening is probably due to carbon from the motors combustive process and fuel as ALL M0T0R mentioned.
What I was unsure of is if the breakdown from heat and shearing from moving parts contributed to its blackening as well. Its because they can do _____________ what better then regular oil ;) |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Last 2K mi longer between change intervals over conventional?
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40091404)
Last 2K mi longer between change intervals over conventional?
Answer : syn oil allows for more cooling, lubing while picking up and cleaning more of the engine.. It allows for more "soaking up" Your right on the combustion process making the oil black.. as well as some gas getting in the oil.. But your right This is not saying that convential oil isn't good, compared to syn people have perferences.. but this is a good explaination of why syn oil is better then convential oil.. Majority of the time its perference. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 40091481)
It does last long.. but why..
Answer : syn oil allows for more cooling, lubing while picking up and cleaning more of the engine.. It allows for more "soaking up" Your right on the combustion process making the oil black.. as well as some gas getting in the oil.. But your right This is not saying that convential oil isn't good, compared to syn people have perferences.. but this is a good explaination of why syn oil is better then convential oil.. Majority of the time its perference. Question though, were did you learn of synthetic doing a better job with cooling? |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40091592)
Question though, were did you learn of synthetic doing a better job with cooling?
It accomplishes this through a reduction in friction which in turn reduces temperatures. It doesn't cool like coolant would, in a thermal transfer way, any better than a conventional oil would.
Originally Posted by DC_Legacy
(Post 40091364)
What I was unsure of is if the breakdown from heat and shearing from moving parts contributed to its blackening as well.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by 00Red_SiR
(Post 40091791)
It accomplishes this through a reduction in friction which in turn reduces temperatures. It doesn't cool like coolant would, in a thermal transfer way, any better than a conventional oil would.
All this talk on oil has me searching for idependant studys comparing the two again which I havent researched since I did a speech report on motor oil in college well over a year ago. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
It's true, real Synthetics do reduce friction and increase power, you just have to do your homework to figure out which synthetics are real and which ones are "marketed" as real. I save time by using Redline.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
I believe that they could since the formulation is engineered for added benefits, but would you know by how much percentage wise in a healthy motor, or better yet do you have a link to an independant study showing Redline or Mobil 1 syns vs conventionals counter parts?
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Do you really believe that the reduction in friction is capable of lowering engine/oil temps significantly despite the hot temperatures reached in the combustion chambers averaging about 1600 oF? I was having a discussion with several chemical engineer professors at the college I attend, and they seemed to agree that most syn. oils available at the local auto parts store or wal-mart aren't worth the cash. The based stocks used are low grade, and the only synthetics worth using are those which are bought through specialty shops, i.e. Redline, Joe Gibbs, etc.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by all-mtr-teg
(Post 40093016)
Do you really believe that the reduction in friction is capable of lowering engine/oil temps significantly
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 39880721)
Oh, i thought he was joking..
I spun bearings 2/3.. After study it seems it was because of oiling issuses. I myself blamed it on me, because i tried a thicker / heavier oil to help hide the fact my oil control rings were failing.. I Had always ran mobil1 and .. thats all i'll ever use. You can see by my thread i put up a few months ago, the motor was so clean.. you could eat off of it while it was running. I switched over to a Heavier oil based on a recommendation from a friend. He was a honda tech, and said they had success in heavier oils.. so i tried it.. i went ahead and replaced the oil pan gasket as well.. Next day on the start up on the way home, heard a light knock.. rod knock.. motor was driven home at under 3k rpms, and was tore down that weekend. I also believe it was attitubed to over 4 years abuse on a stock bottem end. Countless revs to 10k+, numberous nitrous runs, countless drag trips and what not. I built this car to be beat on, and i believe it surpassed its lifetime of what i put it through. I wasn't upset, i had been planning on this motor going for some time. I removed the oil pump and broke it down, with detailled pics.. No, b series oil pumps dont caviation but the gyro's were smooth and not rough in anyway. I just attitubed the situation to oil because the day after i changed the oil, was the day it started knocking. I live and die by mobil1 , and that is the only oil i use and will use. The oil i put into my motor that night, was not.. and ya.. I find it funny that the authority on Oil...seems to have oil problems himself. Irony. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by BeniRacing
(Post 40097834)
I find it funny that the authority on Oil...seems to have oil problems himself.
Irony. its the only thing i could have thought of that could cause spun bearings.. i had oil pressure which was fine, and no problem with the oil pump.I came to the conclusion it had to be some type of oilling issuse..I'm not the authority on oil.. God why are you such a ****en child? huh? Who the hell are you kid to talk and disrespect me or anyone else on here, what gives you that right? Your not impressing anyone with your ***got ass attitude. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
You contribute shit to any thread on here. You take cheap shit talking shots over the internet.. I've yet to see you contribute anything worth a damn but mess up threads.. this thread wasn't about me learning about oil, Hell i already know about oil this was for the countless post asking about "which oil to use".. get a grip.. or get the **** off this site.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
its a shame when people start threads for informative discussions and then someone decides to interrupt things by being stubbornly negative. if you dont like whats being discussed then stay out. why try to prove what someone else doesnt know??? why waste your time?
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
I read that mobile recently reduced their zinc content on most their mobile 1 oils, to less than 800 ppm (.008%) which is down from around 1100 ppm (.011%).
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
(Post 40098223)
You contribute shit to any thread on here. You take cheap shit talking shots over the internet.. I've yet to see you contribute anything worth a damn but mess up threads.. this thread wasn't about me learning about oil, Hell i already know about oil this was for the countless post asking about "which oil to use".. get a grip.. or get the **** off this site.
I still have yet to call you anything derogatory, but you insist on continuing. Hopefully, you will realize that I am no "kid" and your constant projection of yourself upon me is really the childish act. And you say that I never contribute...but I have already in this thread alone. Remember??? |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
mobil 1?....not my first choice in engine oil....its probably near the bottom of my top 5 list with exception of one or two of their blends. most of the off the shelf M1 oils are not worth the price tag.
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by BigBlock22
(Post 40098600)
its a shame when people start threads for informative discussions and then someone decides to interrupt things by being stubbornly negative. if you dont like whats being discussed then stay out. why try to prove what someone else doesnt know??? why waste your time?
I'm not attempting to say who's rite or who's wrong, I'm saying there's a difference between bashing someone and challenging them to back up what they're saying with real facts and knowledge instead of BS. Let the thread continue, let the two parties that are engaging each other continue and the truth will come out which is all everyone really wants right?
Originally Posted by all-mtr-teg
(Post 40099173)
I read that mobile recently reduced their zinc content on most their mobile 1 oils, to less than 800 ppm (.008%) which is down from around 1100 ppm (.011%).
Anything with the "starbust" symbol on the back has little or no zinc additive to be API compliant (most of the mobil 1 brands). They would have had to lower it to meet the new API requirements. The oils like Redline are better because they chose not to comply with API standards and will therefore contain effective levels of zinc. |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by ALL M0T0R
Oh, i thought he was joking..
I spun bearings 2/3.. After study it seems it was because of oiling issuses. I myself blamed it on me, because i tried a thicker / heavier oil to help hide the fact my oil control rings were failing.. I Had always ran mobil1 and .. thats all i'll ever use. You can see by my thread i put up a few months ago, the motor was so clean.. you could eat off of it while it was running. I switched over to a Heavier oil based on a recommendation from a friend. He was a honda tech, and said they had success in heavier oils.. so i tried it.. i went ahead and replaced the oil pan gasket as well.. Next day on the start up on the way home, heard a light knock.. rod knock.. motor was driven home at under 3k rpms, and was tore down that weekend. I also believe it was attitubed to over 4 years abuse on a stock bottem end. Countless revs to 10k+, numberous nitrous runs, countless drag trips and what not. I built this car to be beat on, and i believe it surpassed its lifetime of what i put it through. I wasn't upset, i had been planning on this motor going for some time. I removed the oil pump and broke it down, with detailled pics.. No, b series oil pumps dont caviation but the gyro's were smooth and not rough in anyway. I just attitubed the situation to oil because the day after i changed the oil, was the day it started knocking. I live and die by mobil1 , and that is the only oil i use and will use. The oil i put into my motor that night, was not.. and ya.. what oil was it broken in with? |
Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
you make a very good point OORED SIR... let bygones be bygones. but anyways, i dont see the point in running brands like redline or torco unless its being used in a race car. as for mobile-1 and royal purple, the two that i personally like to use. i thought they were suitable for my daily driven car in the past and i will continue to use either one with my future build im working on. all these companies use so many additives with their synthetics its hard to find out exactly what elements are being used and how useful they really are (i didnt know about the zinc being used in oils, nice to know though). i honestly dont look into the flashpoint or the oils viscosity value at what ever given temperature. i just stick to what works for me and what works for the folks running similar setups. i remember reading somewhere that the oil in your engine is responsible for something like 40% of the engines cooling. this is an interesting thread to say the least
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Re: "Oils" Jobs in a motor.
Originally Posted by night
(Post 40100877)
what oil was it broken in with?
It spun a bearing after 4 years of complete abuse.. i'd say it lasted a fairly long time, specially on a stock bottem end. |
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