Tranny noise continues.....noise record included
 

So, I changed these bearings on my 98 EDM ITR:

1) The throwout bearing in the clutch

2) 3 bearings in the tranny (both mainshaft and one countershaft bearing):
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings4.jpg
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings5.jpg

The exact same noise is still present http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emsad.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

Today I recorded the sound from the driver's seat. The car is stopped, stick in neutral and engine revved at about 3000RPM. I periodically push and release the clutch pedal, notice the noise when the clutch pedal is released:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/noise.mp3

The noise is present:

1) In the case above - stopped and clutch pedal relased. When I push the clutch pedal, the noise immediatelly stops (as you can hear in the MP3). The noise goes on/off about 1-2inches pedal height from the floor. Just touching the pedal doesn't make the noise stop.

2) When I drive and accelerate, the sound is most noticable from 1500 to about 3500RPM in any gear.

3) When I drive and decelerate (with some gear and off throttle pedal, just braking with my engine), the sound is noticable only from 2000 to about 3000RPM in any gear.

4) When I drive in any gear and pulsate with the throttle pedal, the noise changes a bit, you can hear it from 1000 to about 5000RPM (in higher speeds the engine is too loud).

What the hell could this be?????? Could the clutch plate itself make this noise? IMO, when stopped and just revving with clutch pedal released, only the mainshaft is rotating. I replaced both the beaings and this doesn't help http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif.

Thank you for your help my friends!


Modified by petrv at 6:14 AM 8/13/2004

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

Not only the mainshaft is rotating while stopped, I think. Also the gears.

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

My car makes the same noise. I hope you find out what it is so I can fix mine too. I was thinking it was my throwout bearing but you replaced yours and it still makes the noise. Hmmmm....

Dave

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (innocenti)
 

I think that before the bearings replacement, the noise stopped gradually in 1 sec or so, now it stops immediatelly. Maybe the bearing in the tranny were worn so it helped a bit. Could the clutch pilot bearing cause this noise while the clutch pedal is released?

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

What is the pilot bearing?

The release bearing is not turning when you release the clutch pedal.

It sounds a friction noise and not a bearing noise.
If i was you i had change the complete clutch (Disk, plate, and bearing) when i removed the Gearbox.

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (DutchITR1689)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the pilot bearing?

The release bearing is not turning when you release the clutch pedal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The pilot bearing *should be* #6 in this picture:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings6.gif

Does it spin even with the clutch pedal released? This bearing is new to me, since Preludes don't have any.

Re: (sylvain)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sylvain &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It sounds a friction noise and not a bearing noise.
If i was you i had change the complete clutch (Disk, plate, and bearing) when i removed the Gearbox.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know I should check the clutch when I was there https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif . Now it's too late and I will drop the tranny one more time http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif

But what would make the friction noise if everythig is "connected" (with clutch pedal released)?

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

Oh yeah, that's the flywheel bearing. It spins with the flywheel. So it turns when you press the clutch pedal.

But I would think that bearing is never heavily stressed......

Re: (petrv)
 

A disk spring or a blade plate broken !

How many kms is the clutch/car ?

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (DutchITR1689)
 

Yes it's only a pilot bearing, no stress. Or a dafault in the bearing but it sould not be a bearing sound !

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (DutchITR1689)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DutchITR1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh yeah, that's the flywheel bearing. It spins with the flywheel. So it turns when you press the clutch pedal.

But I would think that bearing is never heavily stressed......</TD></TR></TABLE>
Does this flywheel bearing spin all the time o only with the clutch pedal released?

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Does this flywheel bearing spin all the time o only with the clutch pedal released?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The outside spins with the flywheel and the inside with the mainshaft.
So it should only make noise when you step on the clutch pedal -&gt; flywheel is turning and mainshaft is not.

Re: (sylvain)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sylvain &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A disk spring or a blade plate broken !
How many kms is the clutch/car ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The previous owner told me, that he had to replace the clutch plate for a new OEM one, because the old one came into pieces. He didn't replace anything else, because the throwout bearing was dead - I replaced it now, but it didn't cure the noise.

The car has 85k miles (130k km).

The clutch looks like this:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings7.jpg

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

When the clutch pedal is released all clutch elements spins together.

When you put on the pedal, only the plate/flywheel spins. The disk is on the mainshaft ans spins between plate and flywheel but the clutch external bearing turn with the plate and the internal spins withe the mainshaft.

Re: (petrv)
 

I have replaced only the disk at 80k kms and my plate is the stock one: 150k kms.
No problems with it.

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (sylvain)
 

I see that there are many discs and plates - he changed the black disc in the middle of the picture. Just to be clear.

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (petrv)
 

Ohh ok, so the plate (mecanism) is stock !

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (sylvain)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sylvain &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ohh ok, so the plate (mecanism) is stock !</TD></TR></TABLE>
He changed only #2 in this pic, everything else should be stock. BTW the black disc is the OEM honda one.
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings6.gif

Ok, so the noise stops when the clutch pedal is in, and begins when you let the clutch out. This eliminates the possibility of it being all bearings that move when the clutch is depressed. These bearings include the throw out bearing and the pilot bearing. The noise is still somewhere inside your transmission.

On my first rebuild, I replaced every bearing in the transmission, including the needle bearings. After doing this and inspecting the needle bearings, I realized that these will more than likely NEVER go bad...but when rebuilding a tranny for someone I offer the option of replacing them anyhow. I honestly don't think the needle bearings could make the sound that you are describing either.

This leaves 7 bearings in the transmission - the clutch housing input shaft bearing [which you replaced], the main shaft end bearing [which you replaced], two countershaft end bearings...one with a snap ring groove [which you replaced] and one without the groove, the clutch housing countershaft bearing, and the two diff bearings. It won't be the diff bearings though, because these don't turn when you're sitting still in neutral with the clutch out.

In every transmission I have rebuilt with the exception of the last one, the problematic bearings have been one of the three you replaced. In the last one I rebuilt [d-series DX tranny], the problematic bearing was the countershaft bearing that is underneat the snap ring bearing. When you have the tranny apart, you can roll the bearings and usually tell which one is bad.

I am positive that the bad bearing making all the noise is one of the 2 countershaft bearings you did not replace. Open it back up and roll these two bearings...the culprit should scream at you.

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (sylvain)
 

Normally clutch noises can only be heard under load. Now he is hearing noises at neutral when the clutch pedal is released. Sounds like tranny noise.

Re: (DaX)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am positive that the bad bearing making all the noise is one of the 2 countershaft bearings you did not replace. Open it back up and roll these two bearings...the culprit should scream at you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But he hears the noises when the car is standing still, so the countershaft is not turning at that time.

Re: (DaX)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, so the noise stops when the clutch pedal is in, and begins when you let the clutch out. This eliminates the possibility of it being all bearings that move when the clutch is depressed. These bearings include the throw out bearing and the pilot bearing. The noise is still somewhere inside your transmission.

On my first rebuild, I replaced every bearing in the transmission, including the needle bearings. After doing this and inspecting the needle bearings, I realized that these will more than likely NEVER go bad...but when rebuilding a tranny for someone I offer the option of replacing them anyhow. I honestly don't think the needle bearings could make the sound that you are describing either.

This leaves 7 bearings in the transmission - the clutch housing input shaft bearing [which you replaced], the main shaft end bearing [which you replaced], two countershaft end bearings...one with a snap ring groove [which you replaced] and one without the groove, the clutch housing countershaft bearing, and the two diff bearings. It won't be the diff bearings though, because these don't turn when you're sitting still in neutral with the clutch out.

In every transmission I have rebuilt with the exception of the last one, the problematic bearings have been one of the three you replaced. In the last one I rebuilt [d-series DX tranny], the problematic bearing was the countershaft bearing that is underneat the snap ring bearing. When you have the tranny apart, you can roll the bearings and usually tell which one is bad.

I am positive that the bad bearing making all the noise is one of the 2 countershaft bearings you did not replace. Open it back up and roll these two bearings...the culprit should scream at you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Perfect recapitulation, thanks. IMO the countershaft doesn't spin when no gear is selected and the car doesn't move, because the mainshaft is not connected to the countershaft right? That's why it can't be caused by any countershaft bearing (?).

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (DutchITR1689)
 

Let me explain you my point of view, when you press the pedal, the big bearing press on the clutch plate to free the disk ok ? So if a blade of the plate is broken, it sould attenuate the noise. But when you release the pedal, all the blade are free and if one is craked or broken it sould be making some noise ?

What do you think about that ?

Re: Tranny noise continues.....noise record included (sylvain)
 

Unfornatelly, I have only 1 picture of the clutch:
http://www.volny.cz/veitel/itr/tranny/bearings8.jpg