i have a 91 LS TEG, would it be easier to turbo it with a Vtec engine or to keep the stock engine. the stock engine currently has 118,XXX miles on it. Thanx

 

depends on what you want. i was considering on dropping a gsr in my teg, but opted to keep my Ls and build it for turbo.

 

I have a GSR.... Im not gonna lie....

GSR is good for turbo

LS/RS/GS is best for turbo

So truth be told.... Either engine you have... Just build it..... The mileage won't matter after a build...

 

why would the B18A motor be better for turbo compared to a B18C motor? GSR motors seem to be best for turbo applications amongst G3 integras for the most part.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daLixz25 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would the B18A motor be better for turbo compared to a B18C motor? GSR motors seem to be best for turbo applications amongst G3 integras for the most part.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lower compression....longer gears

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ls_teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lower compression....longer gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

more torque, quicker peak

 

this is one argument that is forever on-going. Its an opinionated thing and one has to research and decide what they want and what works best for them.

 

rebuild the engine and then turbo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackB18CTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

more torque, quicker peak</TD></TR></TABLE>

So true, true....

 

b18b/90-93 teg 1.8 non vtec is cheaper, lower compression and has shorter gears
a low lag turbo like an 18g greddy or t3 will do the job
that will give you good times and a fun car to drive

 

Anyone who says an LS motor is better for boost is absolutely, positively, 110% wrong. That is just TOTALLY not the case.

Myth #1 - VTEC isnt made for a turbo. Wrong. VTEC and turbo work together great. Which is why you see GSR's/ITRs making such great #'s with VTEC and a spooled turbo.

Myth #2 - High compression is bad. Lower compression means more boost. Wrong. HIGHER compression is good because you get more power per PSI. You may be able to safely run more boost due to compression issues, but there is more into it than that. If your GSR makes 275whp @ 7PSI, and your LS makes 275whp@11PSI...which is more efficient?

Myth #3 - LS Trannys are better for boost. Simply not true. Shorter gearing allows for better acceleration. Period. The only advantage LS trannys give you with longer gearing is a higher top end. So you can go 167mph instead of 162mph. Acceleration will be sacrificed with longer gears.

GSR/ITR Motors are hands down a better motor for making power. If its the other way around, why dont you see more Pros running NonVTEC setups with LS Trannys? Because they go with what works. Boosting an LS motor may be easier for the common idiot to do, since the lower compression allows for more forgiveness in terms of bad tuning or lack thereof. In terms of which motor is "better" for boost, which makes more power, and which is more efficient, there is no question it is the GSR motor.

 

LS tranny thing is true. But I have seen Non-vtecs 11 secs 1/4 with stock internals. I think it's more about how you have your setup....

 

No, it doesnt matter the setup in this specific question. LS' can be fast...no one would argue that.

The question is, which motor is "better" for boost. Not which motor specifically between 2 cars...generally, which motor is better.Which motor has more potential, makes more power, and is more efficient, and the answer hands down is the GSR motor.

 

i dont think 91 teg is a pro , a itr motor + gsr motor cost money
shorter gears with lower compression can handle alot of boost
i think that will be enough

i have a guy that comes to my store with a b18b in a 92-95 hatch with 12.56 written on the side of his car with big white writing - thats fast enough

b18b is cost effecient

 

Youre missing the point.

No one is arguing B18Bs cant be made to be fast.

The question is, which motor is better for boost. GSR is the answer.

As for which motor costs more...if youre going into it already factoring in how much it will cost to replace your motor, you are in the wrong hobby. Thats not the way to successfully handle business. The costs to build both motors are the same. The cost to maintain both motors are the same. The cost to modify both motors are the same. The costs to replace them...why is that even a factor in putting together a successful turbo setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecMagic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">shorter gears with lower compression can handle alot of boost
i think that will be enough</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure, if ignorance leads you to the conclusion that "cr4nkin up da b00st y0!" is the way to get more power efficiently. Why WOULDNT you want to make the same power at 6PSI as you would at 10?

L0tta b00st l0tta b00st is cool, and its neat to say I run 12PSI, but at the end of the day if the same can be achieved with less, where is the advantage? In my eyes, its a clear DISADVANTAGE that you have to run more boost to create equal power.

 

^im with this guy.....however what if you went ls/vtec turbo???

 

You would still see the benefits from a GSR tranny due to the shorter gearing for accelertion purposes.

Not only that, but the GSR tranny will put you in a :"sweeter spot" than the LS tranny when youre revving to 8100+ with the VTEC head.

 

So what your saying is that a ls/vtec turbo with an itr tranny that comes with a lsd would be optimum??? The tranny alone would be better than a gsr unless you threw in a lsd on it. And since you have lower compression, the "common idiot" or the experienced tuner who acidentally messes up on the fuel map would not blow it up. Ahh.....as the plot thickens i go LS

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Youre missing the point.
As for which motor costs more...if youre going into it already factoring in how much it will cost to replace your motor, you are in the wrong hobby. Thats not the way to successfully handle business. The costs to build both motors are the same. The cost to maintain both motors are the same. The cost to modify both motors are the same. The costs to replace them...why is that even a factor in putting together a successful turbo setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It may not be the way race teams do it, but the reason i'm racing a honda is to create power with knowlege, not just brute force the whole project.
There are some variations in costs, and most people don't plan on blowing up their motor, its not always because of intentional overboost. Also, i think that there is nothing wrong with boosting a little more and running a poorer flowing head... it may not be quite as fast, but pretty damn close. But if motors were free, i'd go with the GSR over the LS...

Also, you say higher compression is better and more efficent? Thats what the turbo is for. As you put it, "How often do you see the pros running high compression turbos". The pros run like 50psi, i know they arent' doing that on 11:1 compression.

One more, the longer gearing is advatagous when you have enough horsepower and you are wasting time shifting. Most RWD drag cars run 2 or 3 speeds. That is only good to a point though, i do run an ITR tranny myself cause i'm not creating enough horsepower yet.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack what you said, i'm just disagreeing.


Modified by Cyphear at 10:12 PM 8/9/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegmech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^im with this guy.....however what if you went ls/vtec turbo??? </TD></TR></TABLE>


To be 100% honest I dont even like the idea of Ls/Vtec. It's either one or the other. Too many problems involved in my opinion. Too much extra cash for just have a VTEC.

But hell, GSR or LS, it's all about the end result....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It may not be the way race teams do it, but the reason i'm racing a honda is to create power with knowlege, not just brute force the whole project.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My analogy to the race teams not using LS motors was to answer the question...which is better. If the LS was a better motor for boost, it would be used. Period.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, i think that there is nothing wrong with boosting a little more and running a poorer flowing head... it may not be quite as fast, but pretty damn close. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So we agree? Sure, they can be as fast in terms of moderate setups, I have never argued against that. But to make the same power with less pressure is always better.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if motors were free, i'd go with the GSR over the LS...</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is the answer. In terms of which motor is better for boost...GSR. End of conversation. Again, we're not factoring in the expectation that you will blow your motor and need to replace the entire thing. Even if you did, in most cases rebuilding is the same price either way. The question is which motor is better for boost...and there is the answer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, you say higher compression is better and more efficent? Thats what the turbo is for.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So more efficiency is a bad thing?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One more, the longer gearing is advatagous when you have enough horsepower and you are wasting time shifting</TD></TR></TABLE>

Simply not true. Longer gearing is not automatically a way to boost longer and therefore be faster. The gearing can drop you out of your powerband and therefore make you slower, for example. The long gears will increase your top end, but in terms of racing, throughout the powerband, your acceleration to that top end will suffer.

 

build up the block and get a b16 head.. then turbo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My analogy to the race teams not using LS motors was to answer the question...which is better. If the LS was a better motor for boost, it would be used. Period.

So we agree? Sure, they can be as fast in terms of moderate setups, I have never argued against that. But to make the same power with less pressure is always better.

There is the answer. In terms of which motor is better for boost...GSR. End of conversation. Again, we're not factoring in the expectation that you will blow your motor and need to replace the entire thing. Even if you did, in most cases rebuilding is the same price either way. The question is which motor is better for boost...and there is the answer.

So more efficiency is a bad thing?

Simply not true. Longer gearing is not automatically a way to boost longer and therefore be faster. The gearing can drop you out of your powerband and therefore make you slower, for example. The long gears will increase your top end, but in terms of racing, throughout the powerband, your acceleration to that top end will suffer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont think people are getting the point....

 

First off, i dont think you understood some of my quotes. I think you thought i was talking about something else for some of the stuff. And avoided some of my main points.

Anyway, I think our difference here is that you drive a GSR and i drive an LS.
You see it as, I'll always beat an LS with the same mods, and i see it as, with the money i saved goign LS over GSR I could have a full race mainifold and a SC61 turbo and make WAY more power than the GSR.

So I guess we are both right, we are just arguing different points. ...although I still disagree that a high compression turbo motor is better.