LS or LSV???
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From: Pomona, CA, USA
LS or LSV?
Hey guys, i just want an opinion, would you rather have ls or lsv both for power and longevity? and what ecu and headers should i get wit a b16 head?
tnx
Modified by scoot at 2:22 PM 10/9/2007
tnx
Modified by scoot at 2:22 PM 10/9/2007
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From: New Bedford, MA, USA
Re: LS or LSV??? (scoot)
ls are good for reliability and power lsv is good for power not so good for reliability unless you do it completely right with no short cuts. think of it this way honda made the ls and made a gsr for a reason if the lsv was a good motor for them they would have made it in production. but what kind of car is it for???
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From: NC
Re: LS or LSV??? (B18CivicHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CivicHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls are good for reliability and power lsv is good for power not so good for reliability unless you do it completely right with no short cuts. think of it this way honda made the ls and made a gsr for a reason if the lsv was a good motor for them they would have made it in production. but what kind of car is it for???</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would disagree......
just search and you will find all the info you need. nothing will ever be as reliable as a stock motor but i put a b16 head on my ls block at 85xx almost 6 years ago and had no problems. I'm building the motor now, old bearings looked new at 130k, cylinder walls still had factory crosshatch....
I would disagree......
just search and you will find all the info you need. nothing will ever be as reliable as a stock motor but i put a b16 head on my ls block at 85xx almost 6 years ago and had no problems. I'm building the motor now, old bearings looked new at 130k, cylinder walls still had factory crosshatch....
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 119
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From: New Bedford, MA, USA
Re: LS or LSV??? (Korch94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Korch94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would disagree......
just search and you will find all the info you need. nothing will ever be as reliable as a stock motor but i put a b16 head on my ls block at 85xx almost 6 years ago and had no problems. I'm building the motor now, old bearings looked new at 130k, cylinder walls still had factory crosshatch....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i'm not saying that it wouldnt work at all im just referencing what i've seen happen. If you build it right then you wont have any probelms, like i was tryin to say, but if you build it wrong which a lot of people do then it wouldnt be as reliable
I would disagree......
just search and you will find all the info you need. nothing will ever be as reliable as a stock motor but i put a b16 head on my ls block at 85xx almost 6 years ago and had no problems. I'm building the motor now, old bearings looked new at 130k, cylinder walls still had factory crosshatch....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i'm not saying that it wouldnt work at all im just referencing what i've seen happen. If you build it right then you wont have any probelms, like i was tryin to say, but if you build it wrong which a lot of people do then it wouldnt be as reliable
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Re: LS or LSV??? (B18CivicHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CivicHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls are good for reliability and power lsv is good for power not so good for reliability unless you do it completely right with no short cuts. think of it this way honda made the ls and made a gsr for a reason if the lsv was a good motor for them they would have made it in production. but what kind of car is it for???</TD></TR></TABLE>
do it right and it will run right!
do it right and it will run right!
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Pomona, CA, USA
Re: LS or LSV??? (scoot)
haha ya but i'm buying it off of some guy in the oc, here's the link and tell me what you think, https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1913892
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Re: LS or LSV??? (scoot)
I have posted this info before about LS-V builds and I will post it again:
Also, here is a wonderful thread about building a reliable LS-V:
How to build a "reliable" lsvtec/b20vtec
Originally Posted by [Ennis_D
]You are going to hear different opinions on this set-up. Some will say 1) Go with it and others will say 2) LS-V motors are unreliable; Honda would have built and put this motor in a car if it were meant to be.
Me, personally, I say go with it and that they can be reliable. From what I have seen, most LS-V motors fail because the lack of money and prep put into them. Think about it...The LS motor has a 7-7200k redline; b16 has a 8.000 redline. People blow LS-V motors because they think the stock bottom end (ls block) can handle 8-9,000+ rpms when in reality, it [ls motor] was built for 7-7,200...You do the math and figure out why they blow.
First main reason I have seen failure in LS-V set-ups is the builder skipping having the rotating assembly balanced. Yes, the assembly comes balanced from Honda but having it checked and rebalanced is crucial. I would say $100-200 to have this done at a machine shop and it will pay for itself! Also while at the machine shop, have the rod journals micropolished.
Second main reason they [LS-V] motors blow is because the builder does not replace stock rod bolts w/ ARP ones. Once again, this all leads back to the stock LS motor being built by Honda only to turn 7-7,200 rpms. With stock rod bolts, it leads to bolt stretch and then to a slung rod bearing...From there, it's all DOWNHILL!
The third reason is the use of LS rods. I am not saying they cannot be used, becuase having them shot-peened (Wikipedia - Shot Peening), will increase your chance of them not breaking. This also leads back to the fact that the LS motor was constructed to turn 7-7,200 rpms.
The fourth reason for failure of LS-V motors that I have seen is from not using a VTEC 22tooth water pump. The use of a 19T (LS water pump) at higher (than stock) revs, will lead to cavitation (a void or air bubbles caused from the 19T water pump turning fast than it can handle; Wikipedia - Cavitation) causing the build to fail. The simple replacement of a 22T VTEC water pump will ensure you have a new pump and once again, increase your chances of your build "holding together".
The last reason is the use of OEM head studs. I have seen plenty of LS-V set-ups, where people have ran OEM head studs, experience stud stretch which leads to a blown head gasket and failure of build. The use of ARP GSR head studs is ideal for this motor set-up.
If you are going to build a LS-V motor, take the time to do it right and make as reliable as possible. You dont take your time and replace little things to increase chances of keeping it all together, you will be pulling the motor and rebuilding or replacing before too long. When building, replace OEM LS rod bolts w/ ARP bolts, OEM LS bearings (main, rod, and thrust) with ACL bearings, have the OEM LS rods shot-peened or replace w/ aftermarket (ie Eagle etc), have the rotating assembly checked and balanced along w/ rod journals micropolished, and replace OEM LS head studs w/ ARP GSR head studs . Also, to ensure you are staying w/in the rpm reality of the LS bottom end (if sticking w/ OEM LS rods), make sure you make your power before or between 7-8k rpms. You do not have to rev to 20,000 rpms to make usable and sufficient power.
All of this is just my .02. I am in the process of building a turbo LS-V motor and looking to put down 350-400 to the wheels. I have constructed my build around watching people build these motors, (they are built, they fail, making notes of what parts they used (or did not use) which lead to the failure) and research here on HT. It all comes down to building it right the first time and covering your *** in the right spots the first time around to ensure reliability. Search here on the boards, make notes of set-up that were and are successful w/ what parts they used, and spend the money to do it right. It's like they say:
There are 3 options: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Never a combo of all three-
1) Can be cheap and fast, but not reliable.
2) Can be cheap and reliable, but not fast.
3) Can be reliable and fast, but not cheap
Hope all of this helps
/rant
Me, personally, I say go with it and that they can be reliable. From what I have seen, most LS-V motors fail because the lack of money and prep put into them. Think about it...The LS motor has a 7-7200k redline; b16 has a 8.000 redline. People blow LS-V motors because they think the stock bottom end (ls block) can handle 8-9,000+ rpms when in reality, it [ls motor] was built for 7-7,200...You do the math and figure out why they blow.
First main reason I have seen failure in LS-V set-ups is the builder skipping having the rotating assembly balanced. Yes, the assembly comes balanced from Honda but having it checked and rebalanced is crucial. I would say $100-200 to have this done at a machine shop and it will pay for itself! Also while at the machine shop, have the rod journals micropolished.
Second main reason they [LS-V] motors blow is because the builder does not replace stock rod bolts w/ ARP ones. Once again, this all leads back to the stock LS motor being built by Honda only to turn 7-7,200 rpms. With stock rod bolts, it leads to bolt stretch and then to a slung rod bearing...From there, it's all DOWNHILL!
The third reason is the use of LS rods. I am not saying they cannot be used, becuase having them shot-peened (Wikipedia - Shot Peening), will increase your chance of them not breaking. This also leads back to the fact that the LS motor was constructed to turn 7-7,200 rpms.
The fourth reason for failure of LS-V motors that I have seen is from not using a VTEC 22tooth water pump. The use of a 19T (LS water pump) at higher (than stock) revs, will lead to cavitation (a void or air bubbles caused from the 19T water pump turning fast than it can handle; Wikipedia - Cavitation) causing the build to fail. The simple replacement of a 22T VTEC water pump will ensure you have a new pump and once again, increase your chances of your build "holding together".
The last reason is the use of OEM head studs. I have seen plenty of LS-V set-ups, where people have ran OEM head studs, experience stud stretch which leads to a blown head gasket and failure of build. The use of ARP GSR head studs is ideal for this motor set-up.
If you are going to build a LS-V motor, take the time to do it right and make as reliable as possible. You dont take your time and replace little things to increase chances of keeping it all together, you will be pulling the motor and rebuilding or replacing before too long. When building, replace OEM LS rod bolts w/ ARP bolts, OEM LS bearings (main, rod, and thrust) with ACL bearings, have the OEM LS rods shot-peened or replace w/ aftermarket (ie Eagle etc), have the rotating assembly checked and balanced along w/ rod journals micropolished, and replace OEM LS head studs w/ ARP GSR head studs . Also, to ensure you are staying w/in the rpm reality of the LS bottom end (if sticking w/ OEM LS rods), make sure you make your power before or between 7-8k rpms. You do not have to rev to 20,000 rpms to make usable and sufficient power.
All of this is just my .02. I am in the process of building a turbo LS-V motor and looking to put down 350-400 to the wheels. I have constructed my build around watching people build these motors, (they are built, they fail, making notes of what parts they used (or did not use) which lead to the failure) and research here on HT. It all comes down to building it right the first time and covering your *** in the right spots the first time around to ensure reliability. Search here on the boards, make notes of set-up that were and are successful w/ what parts they used, and spend the money to do it right. It's like they say:
There are 3 options: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Never a combo of all three-
1) Can be cheap and fast, but not reliable.
2) Can be cheap and reliable, but not fast.
3) Can be reliable and fast, but not cheap
Hope all of this helps
/rant
How to build a "reliable" lsvtec/b20vtec
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