HID'S???
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Akron, Ohio, USA
Re: HID'S??? (98teggy-gsr)
Dont mean to jack our thread or anything but i do have a quick question concerning installing HID's on a teg. Are the stock projectors any good on the integra's? If not which ones are recomended to be used in the retrofit?
Do you even PLEBE R8?
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Bellingham, WA
Re: HID'S??? (KRWTEK1)
Its all a matter of opinion but mine turned out awesome with the stock projectors. Cut off line is straight as an arrow and look really good. OP: plug and plays are really easy and dont require any hacking which is a bonus, its up to you how much time you wanna invest.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Bay Area, CA
Re: HID'S??? (ForceFed_Motorsports)
i believe it is not possible to have a cut off line just by plugging in hid ballasts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...c.png
i dont think our stock usdm headlamps have this.....
but retrofit ALL THE WAY!
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Integra projectors suck for HID's, and the projector portion itself is exactly the same for all years 94-01. 98+ is absolutely no different than 94-97, other than 98+ will put more glate above the cutoff line because of the larger chrome bezel below the projector. Yes they are better than sticking HID in something like a Civic reflector headlight, but they still suck compared to OEM HID projectors.
Here's my stock projectors with 4300K HID:
And now an S2000 parked next to me:
Notice how my lights were very bright out a few feet, but then fell off quickly, and the beam pattern is narrow. The S2000 has a very wide, even light on the ground, and the amount of light that hits the fence is WAY more on the S2000 than on my car.
And now my car with Hella bi-xenon HID projectors and 4300K Philips bulbs and ballasts:
Integra projectors will have no color at the cutoff line at all, and there is no way to mod it to have color. Most HID projectors, on the other, usually have a hint of blue at the edge of the cutoff, and some can be modified to have even more blue or even other colors. Of course this is just a ricer mod as it only serves to change the perceived color of your headlights to other drivers from a distance.
Here's my stock projectors with 4300K HID:
And now an S2000 parked next to me:
Notice how my lights were very bright out a few feet, but then fell off quickly, and the beam pattern is narrow. The S2000 has a very wide, even light on the ground, and the amount of light that hits the fence is WAY more on the S2000 than on my car.
And now my car with Hella bi-xenon HID projectors and 4300K Philips bulbs and ballasts:
Integra projectors will have no color at the cutoff line at all, and there is no way to mod it to have color. Most HID projectors, on the other, usually have a hint of blue at the edge of the cutoff, and some can be modified to have even more blue or even other colors. Of course this is just a ricer mod as it only serves to change the perceived color of your headlights to other drivers from a distance.
Do you even PLEBE R8?
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Bellingham, WA
Re: (PatrickGSR94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes they are better than sticking HID in something like a Civic reflector headlight, but they still suck compared to OEM HID projectors.
And now an S2000 parked next to me:
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ill agree with that, but mine turned out awesome and look just like that s2k... all i bought was a set of plug and play HID's and am using my stock 94 integra projectors. Win some lose some id say for the price i got what i paid for. I cant complain, they illuminate things way better than stock and are way brighter than before
And now an S2000 parked next to me:
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ill agree with that, but mine turned out awesome and look just like that s2k... all i bought was a set of plug and play HID's and am using my stock 94 integra projectors. Win some lose some id say for the price i got what i paid for. I cant complain, they illuminate things way better than stock and are way brighter than before
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6
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From: Tampa, Florida, USA
This is a MUST for anyone thinking of buying HID kits. i read the whole thing but here's the basic idea
intellexual net · m k i v
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There are many companies and private merchants out there that will advertise 7000K, 8000K, and even 12000K HID kits. Most of these vendors lurk around on ebay, online car forums, websites, and ricer accessory shops. 100% of the people that buy these kits do so because they are uninformed, uneducated, or misguided in the field of lighting, and will buy these junk kits thinking three things: that these bulbs are brighter, that these bulbs should cost more money, and/or that they will perform better. All three statements are completely false. Perhaps this misconception and frenzy for purple lights originates from BMW and Audi's infamous Hella projector HIDs.
So allow me to explain the real truth of the matter... Philips is the number one manufacturer of HID bulbs. The Philips OEM D2S bulb is rated at 4100K at 12.8 volts and produces 3200 lumens of light. The Philips Ultinon D2S is 5800K at 12.8 volts and produces 2400 lumens of light. As you can see, with all other factors remaining constant, the brightness of an HID bulb declines the higher up the color index you go. Vision, a Korean bulb manufacturer, makes an 8000K bulb, which they used to advertise on Acura-Forums as 2000 lumens bright. This is barely a marked improvement over halogens, and will produce more glare and eye fatigue than it is beneficial. 4100K has been proven through tireless independent research by the Germans, Japanese, and Americans to be the most functional, truest white and thus the brightest possible color temperature (ceteris paribus).
Every car manufacturer in the world (including BMW and Audi) uses none other than a standard 4100K gas-discharge bulb. No exceptions. The reason being is that 4100K is daylight white in color and produces the same color visible light as direct sunlight. This is least fatiguing functional color on the eyes and produces the most comfortable contrast on the road.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So the million dollar question is now: Why do BMW & Audi lights appear blue when they use a white bulb?
Well, this coloration is the result of the light projectors; the lenses: it's transparency, it's curvature, the tiny grooves etched into it; the projector assembly, the shield, and the reflector bowl. All these components work together to produce a signature of light unique to that particular optic's design. On the Audi and BMW projectors, the lens curvature at the edge bends the white light producing a "prism effect". White light is broken down to it's fundemental colors. Since blue lights is high energy, it is absorbed last and thus travels farther. So with this prism effect, you'll notice that BMW HIDs are only purple and blue from the sides, the top, and the bottom edges, but are always daylight white on the road and in the beam pattern. This phenomenon can be demonstrated when you watch an oncoming BMW hit a pot hole or speed bump in the road and the car's nose pitches up and down. The headlights will flicker and "throw colors off", but returns to a solid white beam pattern directly on the road.
Trying to emulate this color-flickering effect with a solid-state blue or purple bulb is only detrimental to lighting performance, it doesn't fool anyone, but most importantly it endangers other motorists around you. Blue light has what we call a very high diffuse density, which causes it to radiate outwards as opposed to forwards. What results is a wide glow of light outside the beam pattern that is blinding to motorists you share the road with. A blue HID bulb will produce color bleed around the headlight, around the objects it lights up, outside of the beam pattern, and around the cut off line. This is effect is known as "glare", and these illegal and improperly installed HID kits are the reason why HIDs get a bad wrap. As common evidence of glare, observe a traffic light at night in a dimly lit area. There is red light and green light. Red is opposite blue and green is next to blue, thus we can substitute green for blue. If you observe the aura, or glow, of light around a red light and compare it to that of a green light, you'll notice that the green light produces much more glare than red. Blue is even worse. Purple, the worst.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So the basic translation for all you guys who are too lazy to read even this small portion, any sort of "hid kit" that you pay money for that is basically more than 6000k will have a higher "intensity" but have less usable light on the road and tons more glare......Also HID's are NOT blue or purple they just look that way because of the construction of the bulb/housing and also the viewing angle causing a prism effect which shows different colors of the spectrum..... :nerd:
It's also funny how they talk about how REAL HID's from cars that come with it stock don't even exceed 4100K......
intellexual net · m k i v
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
MISCONCEPTIONS
There are many companies and private merchants out there that will advertise 7000K, 8000K, and even 12000K HID kits. Most of these vendors lurk around on ebay, online car forums, websites, and ricer accessory shops. 100% of the people that buy these kits do so because they are uninformed, uneducated, or misguided in the field of lighting, and will buy these junk kits thinking three things: that these bulbs are brighter, that these bulbs should cost more money, and/or that they will perform better. All three statements are completely false. Perhaps this misconception and frenzy for purple lights originates from BMW and Audi's infamous Hella projector HIDs.
So allow me to explain the real truth of the matter... Philips is the number one manufacturer of HID bulbs. The Philips OEM D2S bulb is rated at 4100K at 12.8 volts and produces 3200 lumens of light. The Philips Ultinon D2S is 5800K at 12.8 volts and produces 2400 lumens of light. As you can see, with all other factors remaining constant, the brightness of an HID bulb declines the higher up the color index you go. Vision, a Korean bulb manufacturer, makes an 8000K bulb, which they used to advertise on Acura-Forums as 2000 lumens bright. This is barely a marked improvement over halogens, and will produce more glare and eye fatigue than it is beneficial. 4100K has been proven through tireless independent research by the Germans, Japanese, and Americans to be the most functional, truest white and thus the brightest possible color temperature (ceteris paribus).
Every car manufacturer in the world (including BMW and Audi) uses none other than a standard 4100K gas-discharge bulb. No exceptions. The reason being is that 4100K is daylight white in color and produces the same color visible light as direct sunlight. This is least fatiguing functional color on the eyes and produces the most comfortable contrast on the road.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So the million dollar question is now: Why do BMW & Audi lights appear blue when they use a white bulb?
Well, this coloration is the result of the light projectors; the lenses: it's transparency, it's curvature, the tiny grooves etched into it; the projector assembly, the shield, and the reflector bowl. All these components work together to produce a signature of light unique to that particular optic's design. On the Audi and BMW projectors, the lens curvature at the edge bends the white light producing a "prism effect". White light is broken down to it's fundemental colors. Since blue lights is high energy, it is absorbed last and thus travels farther. So with this prism effect, you'll notice that BMW HIDs are only purple and blue from the sides, the top, and the bottom edges, but are always daylight white on the road and in the beam pattern. This phenomenon can be demonstrated when you watch an oncoming BMW hit a pot hole or speed bump in the road and the car's nose pitches up and down. The headlights will flicker and "throw colors off", but returns to a solid white beam pattern directly on the road.
Trying to emulate this color-flickering effect with a solid-state blue or purple bulb is only detrimental to lighting performance, it doesn't fool anyone, but most importantly it endangers other motorists around you. Blue light has what we call a very high diffuse density, which causes it to radiate outwards as opposed to forwards. What results is a wide glow of light outside the beam pattern that is blinding to motorists you share the road with. A blue HID bulb will produce color bleed around the headlight, around the objects it lights up, outside of the beam pattern, and around the cut off line. This is effect is known as "glare", and these illegal and improperly installed HID kits are the reason why HIDs get a bad wrap. As common evidence of glare, observe a traffic light at night in a dimly lit area. There is red light and green light. Red is opposite blue and green is next to blue, thus we can substitute green for blue. If you observe the aura, or glow, of light around a red light and compare it to that of a green light, you'll notice that the green light produces much more glare than red. Blue is even worse. Purple, the worst.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So the basic translation for all you guys who are too lazy to read even this small portion, any sort of "hid kit" that you pay money for that is basically more than 6000k will have a higher "intensity" but have less usable light on the road and tons more glare......Also HID's are NOT blue or purple they just look that way because of the construction of the bulb/housing and also the viewing angle causing a prism effect which shows different colors of the spectrum..... :nerd:
It's also funny how they talk about how REAL HID's from cars that come with it stock don't even exceed 4100K......
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Here are the 8000k HID's that give off the High Intensity blue light but provide hardly any decent light
Here are the REAL HID that provides a decent white light just like PatrickGSR94s lights (they look brilliant by the way)......and also not much blueness or glare
Pretty obvious difference....
Here are the REAL HID that provides a decent white light just like PatrickGSR94s lights (they look brilliant by the way)......and also not much blueness or glare
Pretty obvious difference....
Do you even PLEBE R8?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,422
Likes: 0
From: Bellingham, WA
Re: (dukeofurl187)
Mine are 4300k and emit lots of "usable" light. Close resemblance of like STi HID's. Buddy had a blue hid kit and the light was horrible, besides being very bright and colored you couldnt see ****.
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: TX, USA
so a retrofit?
It can cost about 600 bucks and takes a lot of time and work.
You'll need projectors, hid light bulbs, ballasts, ignitors? The best projectors are from a TSX or an s2000. I would look at junkyards or something to try to find something a little cheaper.
It can cost about 600 bucks and takes a lot of time and work.
You'll need projectors, hid light bulbs, ballasts, ignitors? The best projectors are from a TSX or an s2000. I would look at junkyards or something to try to find something a little cheaper.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 29,940
Likes: 59
From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: (ForceFed_Motorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ForceFed_Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ill agree with that, but mine turned out awesome and look just like that s2k... all i bought was a set of plug and play HID's and am using my stock 94 integra projectors. Win some lose some id say for the price i got what i paid for. I cant complain, they illuminate things way better than stock and are way brighter than before </TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry, but unless I see some pics, I will have to say that it is physically impossible for an HID bulb stuck in the Integra's halogen projector to have anywhere near the beam pattern that S2000 HID projectors have.
I would venture to say that my HID kit did not light up distant objects any better than my 9005 halogen low beam conversion did. HID puts out twice the light, but the Integra projector puts most of that light down on the ground within the first 50 feet in front of the car. At 70 mph you're travelling over 100 feet per second, which makes an HID kit in halogen projectors pretty much useless.
And before you say anything about the kit I had, it was probably about as good quality kit you could get, with the HID capsule perfectly matched in position with relation to the halogen bulb's filament position inside the projector, with little to no glare above the cutoff. It just didn't put the light down in the right place, or project the light wide enough.
Ill agree with that, but mine turned out awesome and look just like that s2k... all i bought was a set of plug and play HID's and am using my stock 94 integra projectors. Win some lose some id say for the price i got what i paid for. I cant complain, they illuminate things way better than stock and are way brighter than before
</TD></TR></TABLE>sorry, but unless I see some pics, I will have to say that it is physically impossible for an HID bulb stuck in the Integra's halogen projector to have anywhere near the beam pattern that S2000 HID projectors have.
I would venture to say that my HID kit did not light up distant objects any better than my 9005 halogen low beam conversion did. HID puts out twice the light, but the Integra projector puts most of that light down on the ground within the first 50 feet in front of the car. At 70 mph you're travelling over 100 feet per second, which makes an HID kit in halogen projectors pretty much useless.
And before you say anything about the kit I had, it was probably about as good quality kit you could get, with the HID capsule perfectly matched in position with relation to the halogen bulb's filament position inside the projector, with little to no glare above the cutoff. It just didn't put the light down in the right place, or project the light wide enough.
Do you even PLEBE R8?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,422
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From: Bellingham, WA
Re: (PatrickGSR94)
I dont have a nice camera but ill be right back... ill go take a pic right now and see. I think they do the job but i guess its all a matter of opinion.
Nevermind, pics turned out horribly. I see what you mean though when you say wide, the light emits alright from side to side but isnt nearly as good as that pic you posted.
Modified by ForceFed_Motorsports at 9:45 PM 6/13/2007
Nevermind, pics turned out horribly. I see what you mean though when you say wide, the light emits alright from side to side but isnt nearly as good as that pic you posted.
Modified by ForceFed_Motorsports at 9:45 PM 6/13/2007
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 791
Likes: 1
From: 916CA
Re: (ForceFed_Motorsports)
People don't really think about it but cameras ALWAYS make the light output in these comparison pictures look more intense than it really is. So any picture you see here, the lighting is, in reality, not that bright.
Also, stock projectors on out tegs are pretty decent. Nothing like S2K quality but they're pretty good for stock, almost making it hard to spend the extra cash on a proper retrofit.
Instead of a retrofit, which I'll eventually get to, I bought some TYC headlight assemblies and a 6000k o-nex kit. The kit is good quality, and the TYC replacement headlights gave me the blue cutoff I wanted. Projection is actually a tad bit better than the stock pieces, if you can believe that. I was pleasantly surprised.
Also, stock projectors on out tegs are pretty decent. Nothing like S2K quality but they're pretty good for stock, almost making it hard to spend the extra cash on a proper retrofit.
Instead of a retrofit, which I'll eventually get to, I bought some TYC headlight assemblies and a 6000k o-nex kit. The kit is good quality, and the TYC replacement headlights gave me the blue cutoff I wanted. Projection is actually a tad bit better than the stock pieces, if you can believe that. I was pleasantly surprised.
Do you even PLEBE R8?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,422
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From: Bellingham, WA
Re: (omnirage)
Im curious if a projector from a newer nissan could be used... we get cracked lenses that come thru the dealer that we toss out after the warranty ticket has been payed.
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,323
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From: TX, USA
Re: (ForceFed_Motorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ForceFed_Motorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im curious if a projector from a newer nissan could be used... we get cracked lenses that come thru the dealer that we toss out after the warranty ticket has been payed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sure it can, and if not it's still worth a try.
Ive heard of some people using maxima projectors.
I'm sure it can, and if not it's still worth a try.
Ive heard of some people using maxima projectors.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 29,940
Likes: 59
From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Maxima bi-xenon projectors are the exact same units used in Mercedes E-class (aka E55 projectors) and the BMW 745. They're made by Hella, and they are pretty much the bottom end of the scale in terms of HID projector beam output, cutoff sharpness, and color. However, the bi-xenon solenoid is extremely simple to wire, unlike the Bosch 3-wire solenoids used in BMW bi-xenon projectors, which requires all kinds of diodes and resistors to wire up properly.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 29,940
Likes: 59
From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: (omnirage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omnirage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People don't really think about it but cameras ALWAYS make the light output in these comparison pictures look more intense than it really is. So any picture you see here, the lighting is, in reality, not that bright.
Also, stock projectors on out tegs are pretty decent. Nothing like S2K quality but they're pretty good for stock, almost making it hard to spend the extra cash on a proper retrofit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's true about the pictures. It's all about exposure and aperture, and they can all be changed around to make the light look brighter.
But I still wouldn't even call Integra projectors decent for HID. They are decent in terms of keeping glare above the cutoff to a minimum. But as for putting the light down on the ground where you need it, they really suck. The hotspotting is just horrible.
Also, stock projectors on out tegs are pretty decent. Nothing like S2K quality but they're pretty good for stock, almost making it hard to spend the extra cash on a proper retrofit.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's true about the pictures. It's all about exposure and aperture, and they can all be changed around to make the light look brighter.
But I still wouldn't even call Integra projectors decent for HID. They are decent in terms of keeping glare above the cutoff to a minimum. But as for putting the light down on the ground where you need it, they really suck. The hotspotting is just horrible.