well... i've read plenty of mixed reviews and i came to the conclusion that i'm right where i started. confused... anyway:

i drive a 94 del sol S and i wanted to purchase the omnipower front camber kit. my question is: is a camber correction kit needed? my fronts definately look like flying saucers. i'm dropped at 2.5 inches on H&R RACE springs and plan to buy koni yellows in the future.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unrefined7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well... i've read plenty of mixed reviews and i came to the conclusion that i'm right where i started. confused... anyway:

i drive a 94 del sol S and i wanted to purchase the omnipower front camber kit. my question is: is a camber correction kit needed? my fronts definately look like flying saucers. i'm dropped at 2.5 inches on H&R RACE springs and plan to buy koni yellows in the future.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If your toe is set to zero then they shouldn't wear out unevenly. There are people here with lots of camber and no tire wear issues

 

I think this forum has been very good about straightening out this myth regarding camber and tire wear. You really need to know what sort of people who's advice you listen to, and who's to disregard. The camber kits are not necessary, and getting an alignment to zero out toe is.

 

how do i know you people are the ones i shouldn't listen to. lol... it just seems logical though. the entire camber and weight distributed unevenly on the tires causing wear in different areas. i'm hesitant because people say all you need to do is correct your toe. i want to save money and not get one if i do not need to. but if it helps... then why not. anybody else?

 

To be on the safe side I would. Iwas trying to have a get together here at work to clear some alignment issues. BUt i didn't get too many reponses.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pingaturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To be on the safe side I would.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The safe side of what? I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that suggests that camber kits are "needed" to stop any type of tire wear other than very slight wear on cars that have a lot of negative camber (-2.5 degrees or more ).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unrefined7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do i know you people are the ones i shouldn't listen to. lol... it just seems logical though. the entire camber and weight distributed unevenly on the tires causing wear in different areas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually its not logical, most tires are rated to carry way more weight that what they are using so having more weight on the inside of the tire is not going to cause the tire to wear quiclu, sure at the end of the tire life the inside of the tire will have worn more than the outside, but it will take you most of the life of the tire for it to show.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually its not logical, most tires are rated to carry way more weight that what they are using so having more weight on the inside of the tire is not going to cause the tire to wear quiclu, sure at the end of the tire life the inside of the tire will have worn more than the outside, but it will take you most of the life of the tire for it to show.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't think you understand what i was trying to point out. uneven wear is caused by camber (which is what you're saying right? if so, i agree) i'm not saying the rubber will burn quicker by the camber. that's what i'm confused about. people say your tires will wear quicker due to camber which is what i'm worried about. i don't care if it's uneven as long as they last their entire life. and it does make sense that if you applied more pressure to the inner parts of the tire (or anything else with friction), the uneven wear is inevitable. take a shoe for example: notice the heel sometimes is uneven after some time of use. (for some people) that is because your heel lands before the ball of your feet. but than again... a person can also say that the insides did wear out quicker because of camber. it's actually true because the insides did burn quicker than the outter. LoL

 

Looks like mis-understanding. It sounds like he is saying that most tires are capable of handling *more* weight than what they typically see, in which case, uneven loading of the tire will not cause the tire to wear quicker. But at the very end of the tires effective life, you may see a little bit of uneven wear, but that will take a very long time. It is not an accelerated process like most alignment shops and rumors would have you believe.
Toe kills tires, camber will not.
Toe is the enemy, camber is not.
Get an alignment, not a camber kit.
Unless you want to waste money and destroy your tires at the same time, you should fix toe and don't worry about camber.
Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.

 

Like I said before I'm more than welcome to hold a Get Together at my work. on alignments. The facility is here and so is all the equipment, even a car to do the allignment on, so if you gents want to get together let me know!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pingaturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said before I'm more than welcome to hold a Get Together at my work. on alignments. The facility is here and so is all the equipment, even a car to do the allignment on, so if you gents want to get together let me know!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should... i have no idea where the hell san marcos is at. sounds far otherwise i would actually attend.

 

Actually where I work is in oceanside, ca. I just live in San MArcos.

 

Is this a daily driver? If so I would support getting a camber kit and here's why:

1. Your car is subject to Toe Misalignment more frequently (on average roads) due to shorter shock travel (i.e. bottoming out). Personally, my Toe alignment is off as much as .23 deg every 3-4K.

2. Truth: Toe Wear (due to Toe misalignment) at or near 0 camber is less aggressive than Toe Wear at negative camber.

Why: At a 2.5" drop, Toe Wear is concentrated on the inner 20% of your tire, and you would see feathered wear along the tread edge. At 0 camber, Toe Wear is spead over 80-90% of the tire, causing a less aggressive, even-feathered wear from edge to edge.

In theory, Toe Wear at -2 Deg camber would cause 2mm tire wear along the inner surface edge vs. .5 mm tire wear edge-to-edge at 0 Deg camber (est).

For all intents and puposes, +/- camber does not contribute significantly to "camber wear." It only affects how aggessively Toe Wear attacks the tire's surface.

More info here:

http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think this forum has been very good about straightening out this myth regarding camber and tire wear. You really need to know what sort of people who's advice you listen to, and who's to disregard. The camber kits are not necessary, and getting an alignment to zero out toe is. </TD></TR></TABLE>

A very valid statement. Personally, I would advise listening to everyone's comments and do some independent research to formulate your own opinion. I also do not visit the suspension forum too often, so it's sometimes hard to know who to listen to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Design &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A very valid statement. Personally, I would advise listening to everyone's comments and do some independent research to formulate your own opinion. I also do not visit the suspension forum too often, so it's sometimes hard to know who to listen to. </TD></TR></TABLE>

this is honda-tech ... it's more informative than online sources because you cannot ask WHY.

majority of the folks on here suggest against it. so what you're saying is that i should listen to them... i actually never really though camber kits did anything anyway...

 

Anyone will tell you that the best way to get information is to access multiple sources/opinions - valid ones at least. I respect everyone's opinion on this board, and use their experience to formulate an "educated" opinion.

In my case, my information is gathered from over 250,000 miles of driving experience on lowered vehicles, from 5-7 different alignment techs over the years, and from feedback here and other online sources.

What I'm saying is to not take my views as fact, but to use ALL of our contributions in this thread to your informational advantage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Design &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone will tell you that the best way to get information is to access multiple sources/opinions - valid ones at least. I respect everyone's opinion on this board, and use their experience to formulate an "educated" opinion.

In my case, my information is gathered from over 250,000 miles of driving experience on lowered vehicles, from 5-7 different alignment techs over the years, and from feedback here and other online sources.

What I'm saying is to not take my views as fact, but to use ALL of our contributions in this thread to your informational advantage. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i get as many no's and yes'es. LoL. i'll just save me some money i guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like mis-understanding. It sounds like he is saying that most tires are capable of handling *more* weight than what they typically see, in which case, uneven loading of the tire will not cause the tire to wear quicker. But at the very end of the tires effective life, you may see a little bit of uneven wear, but that will take a very long time. It is not an accelerated process like most alignment shops and rumors would have you believe.
Toe kills tires, camber will not.
Toe is the enemy, camber is not.
Get an alignment, not a camber kit.
Unless you want to waste money and destroy your tires at the same time, you should fix toe and don't worry about camber.
Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats exactally what I am saying.

 

One more thing if anybody doesn't think camber wears tires, you guys are morethan welcome to come and check my used tire pile or the junk tires!!!

 

heres more of my thoughts agreeing with those who are pro-alignment. i wont say that i am the first to ever say this, but lets just say im glad more ppl are starting to agree with me...

unless you have very low profile tires, the full contact patch will be on the ground due to sidewall flex anyway. when you are rolling the tire, there is little friction between tire and road anyway. so a cambered tire doesnt produce much tire wear, offset weight is not really the factor. tires are pneumatic and GENERALLY spread the force equally across the contact patch.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unrefined7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
take a shoe for example: notice the heel sometimes is uneven after some time of use. (for some people) that is because your heel lands before the ball of your feet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

taking a shoe for example is great. but i tihnk you are misunderstanding why the heel would be uneven. i can speak for myself that my shoes are worn unevenly at the heel because i drag my heels. so the edges of my heels skid across the ground. while the front soles nicely stay planted. difference between static and dynamic friction. same principle tires work on. when driving normally, tires move the car by static friction. the same point on the road and the tire are in contact with each other from the front of the contact patch to the rear and no longer in contact. unless youre doing burnouts and locking the brakes.

toe angles certainly are dynamic in the range of wheel height. its designed that way, just like changing camber angles. the difference of being off in toe and being off in camber is that the tire is contantly induced in a greater slip angle, think of it as constantly turning. its the difference of walking and sliding your shoes across the floor. walking itself doesnt wear the shoe out much, constantly sliding the sole of your shoe does.

forget the myths that youve heard about the need for camber kits. you need an alignment to fix your toe after you change ride heights, particularly with different springs. and thats all you need. leave the camber alone. unless youre drag racing, then zero out the toe for better straight line grip.

 

the alignment shop set my camber to .5 neg or less and the outside sholders are geting killed from hard cornering and auto x. the outer edge wears out faster then the inner and the toe is set at 0.

i deff have to dial more negative camber in i forgot to tell the alignment shop that i didnt want 0 front camber.

 

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">forget the myths that youve heard about the need for camber kits. you need an alignment to fix your toe after you change ride heights, particularly with different springs. and thats all you need. leave the camber alone. unless youre drag racing, then zero out the toe for better straight line grip.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, alignment is the only real solution. Camber kits only delay the inevitable. The only thing I would suggest is to monitor the wear pattern every 2-3K. If uneven or feathered wear is still present, take it back to the shop for a follow-up/correction. And if it continues, consider the camber kit to slow the effects of Toe Wear. It really varies on road conditions and driving habits. I rotate/balance/align every oil change and still get slight inner Toe wear (Camber's set at -1 deg front and -1.25 deg rear).

 

Although my slightly rusty red sedan isn't a big advocate for looks, I'd say its more aethetic than really functional, depending on what you do with the car.

I'm using an ingals kit correcting a few degrees. Its still a bit negative, and I'm maxed out unless I shave the UCA to clear the chassis seam insinde the wheel well. Having 5+ degrees of camber just doesn't look appealing...being older, and with so many sedans here looking like they have 10 miles left in them, neg camber just would make my car look dumpy.

 

I'm using the Ingalls in the rear as well. Makes it really easy for my tech to dial in my numbers....

Many people I know in Auto-X use camber kits to fine-tune their handling (for those models that don't come with factory camber adjustments)...