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Old 10-14-2003, 08:55 PM
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Default CA Smog Help Scores BAD!!!



I need to know if my dam CAT is bad?
anyone can explain to me the parts I failed I am kinda confused on the parts I failed THE ASM Test Part which ones I pass which ones I failed

Any help with this issue very much appreciated.

If you know anything about Smog that might help let me know.
Old 10-14-2003, 09:48 PM
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how warmed up was the cat? it doesn't look too bad.. are you running an aftermarket cat?
chipped ecu? how old is you cat? using what kind of header? the stock header is best.. retains more heat than a DC
Old 10-14-2003, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: (andrew ef)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andrew ef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how warmed up was the cat? it doesn't look too bad.. are you running an aftermarket cat?
chipped ecu? how old is you cat? using what kind of header? the stock header is best.. retains more heat than a DC</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was beating on my on the way to the test station. My car was warmed up I left it on outside at Idle while I was inside for about 10-15 minutes. Running a stock CAT 12 years OLD I am gussing because the lady before me never changed it because it never failed smog. Stock Header. P30 Del Sol ECU OBD1 Dohc vtec.

thanks guys!!!
Old 10-15-2003, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

you guessed it... it is prolly your cat... stating its 12 years old... you should have got a pretest done... do they still do those now that we are on a roller system?
Old 10-15-2003, 06:20 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andrew ef &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you guessed it... it is prolly your cat... stating its 12 years old... you should have got a pretest done... do they still do those now that we are on a roller system?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea I need to find out a pretest place local to me. the cat should help me pass hopefully. I have new PLUGS, wires, Dizzy, Oil, And A good O2. Plus its a swapped motor I am trying to pass fucken refs!!!
Old 10-15-2003, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

judging by those numbers i would also replace your o2 sensor(s)
Old 10-15-2003, 07:03 AM
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your HC's and CO's are what matter the most.. and your CAT is sup to help take care of both .. i say replace the CAT and go back for your free test.. if they do that there man CA sux.. were aloud 220 for the HC's you have passed if you lived here
Old 10-15-2003, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: (.:s h a w n D:.)

however if you look when you compare the numbers on the HC and the CO if the cat was bad they would both be excessively high (low and high speed test) which they arent, they are excessively high in the low speed and just kinda high then i would suspect an O2 sensor issue more then anything else, a cat should not go bad if an engine is functioning properly, if this is a swap make sure that you are also using the proper MAP sensor as that can SEVERLY affect your emissions
Old 10-15-2003, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: (.:s h a w n D:.)

The first reason you failed is because your engine swap is illegal. If you're running a JDM B16 and you have the JDM intake manifold and vaccuum line setup you will not pass visual hence the Modified listing on your printout. I passed with a hi flow cat, it was close but I passed, and the high flow was pretty much new. I got my JDM B16 to pass at the ref station. You're on the right track with the P30 and the OBD1 conversion. The last thing you should have to change is the intake manifold. I used the USDM Del Sol manifold. That and a little tuning should do the trick.
Old 10-15-2003, 08:16 AM
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wassup mayng......you know who this is
Old 10-15-2003, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: (.:s h a w n D:.)

So this test was done at the ref? Did he talk to you, did you ask questions? Your first problem is all of those Modified listings on your printout. Those mean the ref had deemed your swap illegal or imporperly set up. I would start by making the swp legal before worrying about the cat. You're on the right track with the P30 OBD1 conversion. The next thing you'll need is a USDM Del Sol intake manifold. This will asssure that all of your wiring and hoses are correct and equivilant to the USDM emissions. That's how I got my JDM B16 to pass in my CRX.
Old 10-15-2003, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: (CRXican)

not only that but your check engine light is on.....why is it on?
Old 10-15-2003, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: (temp)

I am using a Map sensor off a LS Auto I lost my B16a SIR II one

can that cause it I thought about it but I don't think it would.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by temp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">however if you look when you compare the numbers on the HC and the CO if the cat was bad they would both be excessively high (low and high speed test) which they arent, they are excessively high in the low speed and just kinda high then i would suspect an O2 sensor issue more then anything else, a cat should not go bad if an engine is functioning properly, if this is a swap make sure that you are also using the proper MAP sensor as that can SEVERLY affect your emissions</TD></TR></TABLE>
Old 10-15-2003, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: (CRXican)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXican &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The first reason you failed is because your engine swap is illegal. If you're running a JDM B16 and you have the JDM intake manifold and vaccuum line setup you will not pass visual hence the Modified listing on your printout. I passed with a hi flow cat, it was close but I passed, and the high flow was pretty much new. I got my JDM B16 to pass at the ref station. You're on the right track with the P30 and the OBD1 conversion. The last thing you should have to change is the intake manifold. I used the USDM Del Sol manifold. That and a little tuning should do the trick. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I know I am on the right track but I cant find the USDM Manifold From a Dohc Vtec Del Sol

look so hard but yet so far reminds me of that song.
Old 10-15-2003, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: (temp)

my CEL is not ON.

he failed me on that because I have the CEL wired to a switch fucken bitch *** refs. bunch of mother ******* crooks
Old 10-15-2003, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

WOW;

You have the gall to call the Ref's a bunch of crooks after they caught your CEL over-ride switch. What did you expect?

Wes
Old 10-15-2003, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: CA Smog Help Scores BAD!!! (bossman032)

Hydrocarbon Readings

The most common cause of high HC is unburned fuel. This can be caused by any misfire, mechanical problem, or advanced ignition timing. Hydrocarbons indicate unburned gasoline resulting from a misfire. High HC could be because of too much fuel or not enough air. Too omuch fuel could be due to high fuel pressure, a bad fuel injector, oil saturated with fuel, canister purge, or problems with electronic engine controls.

Restricted air flow is usually caused by a mechanical malfuction. Including a burned or misadjusted valve, a broken piston ring, a flat cam lobe, cam timing off, a restricted aire filter, or a restricted exhaust system. These problems all result in less air flowing through the engine. If there is a restriction to the intake or exhaust, the engine cannot bring in enough fresh air and fuel. (The distance between the HC molecules is increased and burning is hampered. Whatever remains in the cylinder after a misfire ends up in the exhaust.

Other causes:

Advanced Ignition Timing. When the timing is advanced, the flam starts to burn the mixture before the molecules are fully compressed. This results in a break in the chain reaction and the flame front goes out before all the fuel is burned.

A defective spark plug or wiring.

An air fuel mixture that is too rich or too lean can cause a misfire. Misfire results in high HC.

A manifold vacuum leak that results in a mixture that is too lean to burn.

An excessively rich or lean a.f. mixture.

I'd like to thank school for that info but anyways heres what else i noticed.

Your CO level is less than 1% which is pretty good , anything over that would be rich. (with a cat)

Your first oxygen level is a little and i do mean a little (hardly) off.
On a normal running car after the cat, the o2 level should be below 0.1% @2000rpms (u want to use up all the oxygen in combustion) your 0.5 indicates slight lean.

Your first reading of NOx (oxides of nitrogen) is really high. NOx is highest at slightly leaner than stoich (close to 16:1) which is another indicator of your early lean condition.

I would say that your HC level could be because of some sort of low rpm misfire. I was going to say that maybe your ran both 02 sensors together but you are running obd1 so forget that, umm check your igntion system especially plugs, make sure your PCV and all vacuum lines are hooked up and re-routed correctly. Suprisingly those things are important!

You can also check your cat, there is a kit where you drill a hole in before that cat and probe the exhaust gasses before and after.

Good luck get a tune up check your timing ( not too advanced! ) and keep me posted!
Old 10-15-2003, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: (Wes V)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wes V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW;

You have the gall to call the Ref's a bunch of crooks after they caught your CEL over-ride switch. What did you expect?

Wes</TD></TR></TABLE>

i doubt its a cel override switch. If you use a obd0-obd1 conversion harness, you wire up a switch to check for codes instead of a plug you have to jump
Old 10-15-2003, 07:56 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88CiViC_DX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i doubt its a cel override switch. If you use a obd0-obd1 conversion harness, you wire up a switch to check for codes instead of a plug you have to jump</TD></TR></TABLE>

what the man above said . not a override switch!!! Just a switch to check for codes
Old 10-15-2003, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: CA Smog Help Scores BAD!!! (JaredH)

Thanks JaredH for the Detailed Insight !!!

I have to redo the Timing on 16degrees.

also the map sensor is from a LS/AUTO or something!!!
yea currently have new spark plug and wires dizzy like stated above. Did an oil change and filter recently after I came back. I can pass the test I have no DOUBT but take some time to get everything together. My vacuum lines are going everywhere . As yo might know OBD1 Xsi Motors don't need anything plugged in like the OBD0. I need to get the right parts on and go retest or pretest. Will keep yo POSTED
Old 10-16-2003, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bossman032 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am using a Map sensor off a LS Auto I lost my B16a SIR II one

can that cause it I thought about it but I don't think it would.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yes it can because the LS Auto has a different fuel map then a B16a, get another SiR-II map sensor OR a del sol vtec one
Old 10-16-2003, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bossman032 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes I know I am on the right track but I cant find the USDM Manifold From a Dohc Vtec Del Sol

look so hard but yet so far reminds me of that song. </TD></TR></TABLE>


why not get an integra type r manifold? it should have the same vacume ports as a del sol vtec
Old 10-16-2003, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: (bossman032)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bossman032 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my CEL is not ON.

he failed me on that because I have the CEL wired to a switch fucken bitch *** refs. bunch of mother ******* crooks </TD></TR></TABLE>


how are they crooks? your car is not hooked up right, they are simply pointing this out? what to you mean wired to a switch?
Old 10-16-2003, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: CA Smog Help Scores BAD!!! (JaredH)

Originally Posted by JaredH
Hydrocarbon Readings

The most common cause of high HC is unburned fuel. This can be caused by any misfire, mechanical problem, or advanced ignition timing. Hydrocarbons indicate unburned gasoline resulting from a misfire. High HC could be because of too much fuel or not enough air. Too omuch fuel could be due to high fuel pressure, a bad fuel injector, oil saturated with fuel, canister purge, or problems with electronic engine controls.

Restricted air flow is usually caused by a mechanical malfuction. Including a burned or misadjusted valve, a broken piston ring, a flat cam lobe, cam timing off, a restricted aire filter, or a restricted exhaust system. These problems all result in less air flowing through the engine. If there is a restriction to the intake or exhaust, the engine cannot bring in enough fresh air and fuel. (The distance between the HC molecules is increased and burning is hampered. Whatever remains in the cylinder after a misfire ends up in the exhaust.

Other causes:

Advanced Ignition Timing. When the timing is advanced, the flam starts to burn the mixture before the molecules are fully compressed. This results in a break in the chain reaction and the flame front goes out before all the fuel is burned.

A defective spark plug or wiring.

An air fuel mixture that is too rich or too lean can cause a misfire. Misfire results in high HC.

A manifold vacuum leak that results in a mixture that is too lean to burn.

An excessively rich or lean a.f. mixture.

I'd like to thank school for that info but anyways heres what else i noticed.

Your CO level is less than 1% which is pretty good , anything over that would be rich. (with a cat)

Your first oxygen level is a little and i do mean a little (hardly) off.
On a normal running car after the cat, the o2 level should be below 0.1% @2000rpms (u want to use up all the oxygen in combustion) your 0.5 indicates slight lean.

Your first reading of NOx (oxides of nitrogen) is really high. NOx is highest at slightly leaner than stoich (close to 16:1) which is another indicator of your early lean condition.

I would say that your HC level could be because of some sort of low rpm misfire. I was going to say that maybe your ran both 02 sensors together but you are running obd1 so forget that, umm check your igntion system especially plugs, make sure your PCV and all vacuum lines are hooked up and re-routed correctly. Suprisingly those things are important!

You can also check your cat, there is a kit where you drill a hole in before that cat and probe the exhaust gasses before and after.

Good luck get a tune up check your timing ( not too advanced! ) and keep me posted!

good post, but i would like to re-iterate what i said earlier because in a way it relates to what you said, and i will give some back info, my b18a swap in my CRX is BAR approved, the first time i took it to the ref i was running the CRX HF map sensor, this made my car run excessively rich not to mention the fact that i had a malfunctioning O2 sensor the car failed the first time, so after changing the map sensor, O2 sensor, intake manifold (it was an automatic engine b4 that we converted, an automatic b18a has an EGR system whereas a manual does not), catalytic convertor and got the proper purge solenoids and did a little tune up the car passed like a SULEV car (almost all 0's across the board)....now i recently had to smog my car, i was using an aftermarket header (crap) and a modified O2 sensor (i had to extend the wire to the new O2 sensor location which rather then being up by the head the header i got relocated the sensor to right before the cat), and the car failed w/ the same results (not to mention the 40 degree advance on the timing, but that is a different story), my HC's were at like 2000ppm and my CO was in the same range (gross polluter), but the NOx was fine (not running lean....w00t)....anywho i changed the header back to the stock unit, and got a used stock O2 sensor, changed the timing belt (it really needed it) and when i took it back it passed with flying colors.....i am a guy who is REALLY **** when it comes to getting smog legal parts because i live in cali, and i have studied smog readings and the cause and solutions to high numbers, that is why i recommended getting the proper map sensor (as he revealed he is using the wrong one) and a new O2 sensor, i would also make sure the O2 sensor is wired properly......just my suggestions
Old 10-16-2003, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: CA Smog Help Scores BAD!!! (bossman032)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bossman032 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks JaredH for the Detailed Insight !!!

. As yo might know OBD1 Xsi Motors don't need anything plugged in like the OBD0.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what do you mean by this? i am going to be reswapping a b16a (from a b18a) into my CRX in the future and doing an OBD-1 conversion so i can get it BAR approved and any info i need would be appreciated


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