conker

I am going to have a go this weekend on replacing my rotors and I am staring at these schematics and trying to figure out why the manual is telling me I need to:
- remove wheel
- remove axle nut
- remove the caliper
- pop the ball joint
- pull axle from hub
- pull 4 bolts from the back of the steering knuckle and separate hub/bearing/rotor from steering knuckle (this is the part that has me worried as I hear it is a b*tch)
- <U>then</U> pull the 4 bolts from the front of the removed hub/bearing/rotor assembly, when I could have just as easily removed these 4 bolts when it was<U> still on the car</U>.

I am sure it will make sense after I get started but it has me sitting here scratching my head right now, and I am (optimistically) hoping someone will tell me I just need to pull the wheel,remove the caliper, the axle nut, and the 4 bolts staring me in the face.

integ6657

If my memory serves me correctly, you cant get to the four bolts on the back of the rotor assembly without removing the axle. The joint almost covers the bolts completely. Its not that bad.....but you will most likely need a good impact to get the bolts out. Hope this helps.

deserthonda

loosen the 4 bolts that , as u say are staring u in the face but do not remove them , it is easier to loosen them up while hub is still attached,,,,,,as for the 4 bolts on the back, ,,yes u definately need to remove axle it makes it much easier ,, u also need a good 10mm, 12 point socket..

conker

Thanks to both, I guess they are coming out. My research leads me to belive the bearing to knuckle mating is press-fit on this gen Accord and I fear it is going to be a handfull. I will get back to the forum on Monday and let you know how it goes (or maybe some frantic posts on Saturday morning). Hoping for the best here. Again, thank-you.

willie the jackass

yeah i believe the front is pressed on

promix

I changed it myself on my Accord 91.

Actually the hardest part was unscrewing axle nuts. I broke 2 breaker bars. Hi-hi - I used 6 foot pipe and my weight is 250lb ;-). Actually it helps if you after removing the weel put some sort of support (I have wooden blocks about 15 inch high) under the rotor and lower the car so the rotor sits on the support firmly. Now the car will not rock up and down when you press the bar hard. I uncrewed axle nuts first - my friend was pushing the brake pedal while I was uncrewing. With brake calipers removed it is impossible.

Now how to remove the ball bearing from the knuckle. The ball bearing actually is pressed into a flange (not sure how is called - click here http://oem.thepartsbin.com/par...=true to see). So this whole thing sits in the knuckle. And it is not pressed in, I would say it is rusted in.


Get four M10 1.25 60-70mm bolts - I bought them in Lowes. Unscrew four 12 pt. bolts from the back and screw in this longer bolts so it screwed in comletely into the thread of flange, but not sticking out. Then take a hammer and start carefully hitting these bolt head crosswise. If the flange does not move, increase hitting force - it will start moving for sure. Do not forget - only CROSSWISE! Like this:
1-3
4-2

A couple of minutes and it's out!

Now it a matter uncrewing bolts that hold the rotor on the hub.

To put the flange back to knuckle just screw it in. Also little by little each side crosswise.

Another reccomendation - it is not always easy to disconnect ball joints from knuckle - use 5 ton puller. I rented it in Autozone.

Then another trick - if the ball joint cone part is a little oily - it is very hard to tighten the nuts - the ball joint start turning too and it is impossible to hold it. Here is advice - first clean ball joints' threads with metal brush to remove rust to make the nut screw on without efforts, second use something like brake cleaner spay to clean cone part of ball joint and also the hole on the knuckle for the upper joint and similar hole on the knuckle - for lower joint. Then it is not a problem anymore.

Good luck. It took us about 3.5 hours per side. But that includes time driving to the autoparts store to replace broken braker bars.

bushrat

hey, just a heads up, u know those four bolts starrin you in the face, don't try and remove each one completely - loosen each one a little bit at a time.....

here's what happened to me -- ya figure I'd know better -- three new bolts later!

After musseling three of the bolts out and distroyin the bolt threads, I figured out what was goin on. The rotor can turn slightly on the hub under braking and bind up the bolts. Crack each one loose first and problem solved - trip to Honda dealer avoided.

note to self - work on car THEN drink beer.

conker

Thanks to all, I really appreciate the suggestions. I could see myself doing the same thing, bushrat, so I am glad you pointed it out. Promix, thanks for the writeup and the link. Couple of questions. What if I removed the wheel cover and left the tire on and sitting on the ground to break the axle-nut loose? From your suggestion of threading the longer bolts and tapping on them, I take it the steering knuckle they pass thru is not threaded, correct? It seems like a good approach and I will give it a try. Anyone else have any techniques or (relevent) personal misfortunes to share? I have to say I am very please with this forum, I did not expect so much interest and support for such an old auto, I might just see 400,000 miles after all.

conker

Thinking of which, anyone know the size of that axle-nut. All I can find anywhere is the rear. Thanks.

promix

Yes, steering knuckle where the bolts pass through is not threaded.

Leaving the tire on to break axle nuts loose - it might work. IMHO, the firmer support is - the better - you will see. It will be easier to break the nut loose. You have to apply big force to breaker bar and I'm pretty sure you will need an extension pipe. If the support is soft, then the force of impact is swallowed by soft support. Of course if you have impact tools - electric or air - it will not be a problem. But looks like this is not the case.

Here is a suggestion about getting a firm support. I actually used 2x6 inch lumber pieces left from rebuilding the roof of my relative. In a store like Home Depot or Lowes you can buy 6 foot 2x6 or 2x4 lumber. It should cost less than $5. They should also have saws, maybe electric, maybe hand. You can cut it yourself into several pieces right there and buy it. Then just nail them together one by one to create a block. It is just an idea - you can come up with something different.

Size of the front axle nut - <U>36mm</U>. You'd better rent the socket - I rented it in Autozone. They also sell it for about $17, but you need this socket very rearly.

Actually seeing the breaker bar bending is scary - but don't be afraid - it breaks in the part that goes into the socket.

conker

Promix, again, thank-you. Good to go, now.

promix

Conker, sorry, I made a mistake about the size of the bolts that I suggested to use to remove ball bearing assembly from knucle: the size is M8 x1.25, not M10 x1.25.

Sorry, I hope you will have time to get correct size bolts, before you start.

conker

It's cool, I am about to crawl under but I will run out and get some. Thanks.

conker

There goes one breaker bar. F'n axle nut.

promix

How is it going?

I found the file that I used as a guide for front rotor replacement. It does not give any advice about breaking the axle nuts loose, but shows how to remove ball bearing assembly. Click here to get it - http://www.geocities.com/vladi...1.pdf. I did not use air tools, just regular hammer. I also had to remove the knucle completely, not just disconnect the lower ball joint.

One more thing - it's been a long time since I've done it and I did not remember the right size for bolts to remove the ball bearing assembly. I was right when I told you first time about the size - it is really <U>M10 x1.25</U>. Man I'm sorry . I hope you can return all not needed bolts back.

I've heard people were simply chiseling the axle nuts off (just the nut - the nut metal is soft) or going to truck repair shops just to break them loose - they use 3/4" drive air tools. Somebody shared a success story of breaking the axle nuts loose with an electric impact drill. Another suggestion - if you have a propane burner like benzomatic you can try heating the nut and breaking is loose while it is hot.

One more suggestion - you can find 3/4 drive breaker bar and 36mm 3/4 socket on the internet. About $25-35 for the breaker bar and $10-$20 for the socket (I've seen one for $8.86 on Amazon.com). Just go to google.com or ebay - I'm pretty sure you don't need any advice about how to look for stuff on Inet. This breaker bar won't break.

The price to replace the front rotors in a shop might be around $200-$300, so doing it yourself even buing tools still saves you alot. I've seen an invoice for this job done on one of my cars from previuos owner - around $300 just for the work.

Good luck.

promix

Somebody used Liquid Wrench and it worked. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1433017. It is actually 2.99 at Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/prel8...11585

MestizoRacer310

Here's a thought I am thinking could work...instead of working in a criss-cross pattern to hammer out the hub/rotor assembly....maybe put a block that touches all four bolts and just hammer in the center, like how the press works....

vtecmw

I'm curious to see how this replacement works out. I need to replace the rotors on my Accord pretty soon. Hopefully there will enough success to convince me to try it on my own. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

conker

Updates:

Well, after snapping a 1/2in. drive breaker bar and a 1/2in. slider, I called it a day Sunday. Promix, you are correct, it is definately 3/4 drive material and thank-you for the PDF, it is worth it's weight in gold. As for the bolts, it is no big deal, $3 local hardware. I got quoted close to $400 for rotor replacement so I don't mind spending half that for parts and tools.
At this point the job is on hold untill this weekend for time and tools. Moving up to this socket: http://www.monstronix.com/prod...59445
and this slider: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr...ories . Any engineers out there want to tell me the increase in strength from 1/2 to 3/4 steel rod? I am hoping it at least is double. I am pretty optimistic about the job once I get the axle nut off, which has just been a case of not having strong enough tools. I will hose the nut down with some liquid wrench Thursday and let it sit a couple of days. Also considering the propane option, an air impact setup (which means buying a compressor), or this: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr...rills. I will start taking pictures since there seems to be an interest in this and if all goes well, I will get the job done this weekend. I am not close to throwing in the towel yet and despite the delay, I am (strangely) enjoying the challenge. I will get back to the forum next week. Thanks a bunch to all.

vtecmw

Sorry to hear that you're having a hard time getting your spindle bolts off. I took my right side off last weekend to replace the axle. It wasn't very difficult to break. I used a 2 foot breaker bar with 1/2" drive. I'm hoping that the left side will be as cooperative when I decide to attempt it.

I think I'm going to attempt the rotor replacement myself as well. Hopefully things will work the way as described in the Wagner (PDF) guide.

Good luck!

promix

Just an idea: another very powerful air tool - http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/...50225. Maybe you can find something like this in a non-membership store.

Another advice - make sure you clean the rotors very well. I didn't clean them and for about a week everytime I was braking I was about to get a heart attack - the car wasn't slowing down! Finally all grease cleaned off and since then brakes work just great, better than on my newer 96 Accord.

I also enjoyed the challenge - I'm still proud of the job I've done and saved good chunk of money. Probably I will have to do the same on my 96 Accord next summer.


Modified by promix at 1:14 PM 11/16/2005

conker

Promix, good price on a powerful wrench. The 3/4 drive socket should arrive tomorrow so I will have another go at it this weekend. I figure with the 3/4 slider with a pipe on each end and a friend to turn it, I can get the beotch loose. Really can't wait to actually get underneath the car. Getting to crunch time now, I had to dremel the squeal indicators off yesterday, that's bad. I will get back to the boards Monday. Thanks a ton to everyone, honda-tech rocks.

conker

Mostly good news to report. The 3/4 drive and slider bar worked great. I put the socket in the middle, leaving 9 inches out either side. Under the 3 o'clock side I put my floor jack, 9 o'clock side got a 6 foot pipe. Raising the jack while putting all my weight on the pipe broke it loose like it was nothing. Caliper and bracket off, no problem. Lower ball joint came off so easy (using a the floorjack and socket handle between control arm and knuckle trick) it was almost comical in it's uneventfulness. Then I got to the part where it was time to seperate the hub/bearing from the knuckle. I am still at the part where it is time to seperate the hub/bearing from the knuckle. For about 2 1/2 hours, I beat the crap out of the 4 bolts I installed, per Promix's suggestion, and I can see why it should work, but it is just pressed in there too tight. I have one idea left then it goes back together untill I can pull the knuckle and and take it to a shop for pressing out. At this point, if my idea does not work, I think I will replace the pads while I have it apart and call it good for now. Off to get a part and have a last go at it.


Modified by conker at 11:05 AM 11/21/2005

promix

Concer, I really wished that you would have a complete success.

The part where I separated the knuckle and bearing assembly was not difficult at all for me. Really, it was about 2 minutes of tapping the bolt heads. It worked this way on my 91 Accord and also worked on my 96 Accord when I was replacing the ball bearing assembly on the passenger side. On my 96 Accord I actually tried a slide hammer first, but it didn't work, then I tried the bolts and it worked. But with a slide hammer it's easy to damage the ball bearing itself . I hope taking the knuckle to a shop will work just fine.

Honestly, I thought if it worked for two Accords, it will work for all of them. Taking into account our Michigan roads in winter - tons of salt - all bolts are rusted, I was sure it is an easy way to do it on all Accords.

Great idea about using a floor jack to break the axle nut loose. Real smart!

Good lick on finishing rotor replacement.

vtecmw

Conker, thanks for the update. I suppose that if your last attempt to separate the rotor from the hub/bearing doesn't work, that I will probably just take mine to be pressed out. Does anyone know of what type of shop will do this work and how much it will cost? I live in Orlando, FL.

Thanks.