Nameless RB26

Me and my needed something fun to do so we bought a mirror and some carbon fiber sheet, resin, etc.

We ended up glazing a mirror with resin, and placing the carbon fiber on it re-enforced with polyester material and more resin.

We used surf board resin because it was recommended to us by an associate who works for 'tap plastics' here in WA.

Everything went fine untill we tried getting it off the mirror. We waiting 24 hours for it to set, and then couldn't get it off the mirror! Eventually we ended up with a butane torch heating up the bottom of the mirror and SLOWLY pulling it off. Well the mirror broke but we got it off.

I'm wondering why it was recommended to us to use a mirror? It's ******* chaos getting it off the mirror. It looks good once you get it off, but sacrificing a mirror for a sheet of carbon fiber sucks.

Can anyone give some tips on how you make quality stuff with c/f? The center piece around the shifter in my 240 is kindof scuffed up and I'd like to make one out of carbon fiber to replace it. I realize I'd have to make a mold.. but I don't want to have problems getting the CF off of the mold.

Any ideas, tips?

Clayton

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to work on the premises I learned with fiberglass, but you need some sort of release agent on the mirror, or whatever surface you're molding from. When I made molds of stuff I just waxed the crap out of them, and then used a release agent that I got from my local supplier of fiber glass products

Clayton

Mr Furball

Maybe give it a light coat of PAM.
"shrugs"

Doctor CorteZ

you need mold release compound.

it also helps to give the buck a light coat of carnuba wax before you lay the piece up.

Mr Furball

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it also helps to give the buck a light coat

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did ya catch yer 8 point last night, hahaha

BROOD

......clean plexiglass (acrylic plastic)

Peel the plastic film off and lay the epoxy resin right on the plexiglass. I've used both with and without mold releases and it works well either way. The plexiglass sheet can be flexed....the fully cured CF sheet will separate. You should still use caution.

Once you get the flat sheets down pat....if you read up on drape forming you can make some pretty good contoured molds from plexiglass instead of just flat sheets.

eHoward

I used a large flat sheet of lexan I found in the lab for a while for molding flat surfaces and as a base for non-flat ones.

You need a mold release. For polyester resin, PVA is fine. The trick is to apply it with an old T-Shirt. For epoxy, you will want a wax.

Mr Hammond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Furball &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did ya catch yer 8 point last night, hahaha </TD></TR></TABLE>

Please repeat to yourself your location below your post count. Then get back to me.

kidkombo

u shoulda asked the dood at tap plastics to give you a jar of mold release..hahah thats like the pam of cf or fiberglass making...hahahah good luck

hondadesign

whats up everybody its my 1 post here

exactly right about mold release, wax, pva, you will need to apply it to any surface except a few low surface energy plastics like polyethalene. My recommendation for flat sheets is to use a piece of tempered glass(bought at local glass store) at least 1/4 inch thick for a 3X5 ft layup tool. plastic generally will scratch over time no matter how carefull you are it will happen and all you parts then will have those scratches. Frame that piece up so it wont flex and break and wax it 10 times. wax it up and down side to side and at 45 degrees to each other. now you have the potential to lay up a nice sheet of carbon fiber. One more thing, your carbon fiber or fiberglass layups to be an efficiant use of material and technology should be 50 percent fabric/50 percent resin matrix. The way to do that is weight how much fabric you will use and then weight out an equal amount of resin.

Mr Furball

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Hammond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Please repeat to yourself your location below your post count. Then get back to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was being facetious assclown

Magnaflow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondadesign &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats up everybody its my 1 post here

exactly right about mold release, wax, pva, you will need to apply it to any surface except a few low surface energy plastics like polyethalene. My recommendation for flat sheets is to use a piece of tempered glass(bought at local glass store) at least 1/4 inch thick for a 3X5 ft layup tool. plastic generally will scratch over time no matter how carefull you are it will happen and all you parts then will have those scratches. Frame that piece up so it wont flex and break and wax it 10 times. wax it up and down side to side and at 45 degrees to each other. now you have the potential to lay up a nice sheet of carbon fiber. One more thing, your carbon fiber or fiberglass layups to be an efficiant use of material and technology should be 50 percent fabric/50 percent resin matrix. The way to do that is weight how much fabric you will use and then weight out an equal amount of resin. </TD></TR></TABLE>

As a general rule of thumb, yes. Different materials need more or less resin. For example with chopped strand mat the fibers are held together by an adhesive that actually breaks down from the polyester resin. So you need
1 1/2 to 2 times the amount of resin.

Tap plastics reccomended a mirror because it is flat and does not scratch as easy as other flat materials.

Mr Hammond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Furball &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was being facetious assclown </TD></TR></TABLE>

No **** ya think? God I hope you weren't serious. :shakes head:

Please repeat again.

95db8GSR

there are mold release agents as everyone has stated, but there are also mold release films that you can place on flat or slightly curved surfaces w/out the hassle of a liquid or paste-like mold release agent.
i would use the liquid stuff for the parts that are too curved for a film to conform to.
some films are even teflon coated which will make the finished surface of the part smoother.

mirrors or glass are a bad idea for multi-layer lay-ups b/c you must bend the CF to release it; whereas w/ film or plexi it bends instead of the CF...

gfunkmos37

interesteing, i had the same problem. for all the tips

hondadesign

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95db8GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mirrors or glass are a bad idea for multi-layer lay-ups b/c you must bend the CF to release it; whereas w/ film or plexi it bends instead of the CF...</TD></TR></TABLE>

After you have waxed your mold (glass sheet, metal sheet, whatever) at least 10 times for your first part you should be able to take a plastic parting tool and literally peel your whole part off very easily. you wont bent anything at all, after your first time bending plastic it will begin to warp and over time you will have a mold that isnt truly flat anymore.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nameless RB26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Me and my needed something fun to do so we bought a mirror and some carbon fiber sheet, resin, etc.
Any ideas, tips? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Im assuming you wanted a very high gloss finish and thats why the taps employee recommended a mirror. In production for this application most companies use highly polished steel or aluminum plates. You can use any of the other recommendations but pva or other similar parting films compromise the high gloss you may be trying to achieve. Most studios or companies use specialty products brand "honey wax" for low temp layups and muguirs mirror glaze brand #87 high temp mold release wax for high temp appearance critical carbon fiber. It is what i have seen being used in concept car studios, and high end professional carbon fiber products.

fuzzynutz

you can also use alot of vasaline, that is waht i use to line the molds of remote control boat hulls i used to make, i would just cake it on and it would pop right off when it was done

eHoward

I use vasaline for plaster prototyping, but if you use it to release carbon fiber, you're not going to get the cosmetic surface finish most people are looking for because it will have waves.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fuzzynutz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can also use alot of vasaline, that is waht i use to line the molds of remote control boat hulls i used to make, i would just cake it on and it would pop right off when it was done </TD></TR></TABLE>

travanx

I made a fiberglass enclosure for my sub for my old car, which came out pretty good, probably used too much cloth though, but I wasn't sure how strong to make it. Making a carbon fiber part for the car has always been something I wanted to try.

Can anyone explain how to go about doing this? I like the original posters idea of doing a center console. Also is carbon fiber just one layer? Or how do you get the part to just have that perfect pattern???

Magnaflow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travanx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I made a fiberglass enclosure for my sub for my old car, which came out pretty good, probably used too much cloth though, but I wasn't sure how strong to make it. Making a carbon fiber part for the car has always been something I wanted to try.

Can anyone explain how to go about doing this? I like the original posters idea of doing a center console. Also is carbon fiber just one layer? Or how do you get the part to just have that perfect pattern???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not much different. CF is just one layer typically. You can do more, but it is a waste of material. Just reinforce it with Fiberglass underneath for strength. To get the weave perfect you have to stretch it VERY carefully. It takes a lot of practice and is a skill. Try to start with a flatter pice to pracetice, and take your time! Good Luck

eHoward

I have to disagree here cause it irks me.

Using full carbon is not a waste of material if you want the lightest possible part.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Magnaflow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not much different. CF is just one layer typically. You can do more, but it is a waste of material. Just reinforce it with Fiberglass underneath for strength. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Magnaflow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eHoward &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to disagree here cause it irks me.

Using full carbon is not a waste of material if you want the lightest possible part.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on how elaborate he wants to make his center console. Typically the center console does not have to be incredibly strong, but once again depends on what he wants to do. With that being said if it is simple or just a mold of stock, then fiberglass will be fine. The weight savings of using CF over Fiberglass would be less than 1 lb, but much more $$$. But if you dont care to spend the money... Go for it! Now if it is a structural piece or whatever such as a sub box or door, then strength is an issue.

travanx

its more of a curiousity I have had ever since I read a DIY on making an RX-7 (I think) door. I get the idea of strength vs. whatever I am using the piece for. Just wasn't sure if it's just one layer, or multiple layers or what. All the DIY stuff I saw for sub boxes was cut strips and slowly do the whole box in strips. Look wise I wouldn't get the beautiful looking weave. And what kind of street car is going to do any CF parts of an interior for weight savings???

So whats a good way to make a mold. I am trying to think of something simple, but I can't. So any interior part you can think of, how would I go about making a mold?

Magnaflow

I figured since it was an unneccessary piece you werent lookign for weight savings, but Ehoward was correct that CF would be better for weight. However the cosmetics of having CF you only need one layer. Since weight is not a problem, it is much easier to just wrap the stock piece. Try starting with your A pillar, or something small and with minimal bends. I started with my buddies pillars and it was a good place to start.

If you really want to make a mold, ummm there is a couple different options. Just ask...

ConceptR1

try working with sheet metals. if you plan on making a flat surface try a heavier grade sheet metal. yes mold release and carnuba works also. also look into the types of resin you are using. Ive been working with cf and fg for about 7 years now and have seen differences in the types. for carbonfiber look into "clearwater" resins they usually work best to show off the cf look, if you want it flexible look into "isoflex", and if you want it strong and sturdy look into "impact" resin. hope that helps ya