dfoxengr

if he is not using all available bump travel (easily measured by a zip-tie) then yes more droop will help, as long as the springs are still seated.
this can simply be gained by lowering the car more.

he also may be trailing the brake too far into the corners as well.

Evs-One

Just stop, please.

I used one specific car for an example, while I have 100 others, including national level Solo cars,

You do know what a sway bar does, right? Bump/spring rates can go out the window when you have a big enough bar back there

dfoxengr

oops, pissed you off again.
Stop what? I didnt even know we were arguing, lol.


didnt mean to make you mad, and I dont care whether or not you like my method, but at least I have a methodical approach to finding the extension lengths.

I didnt even know you were making some example because you arent communicating your thoughts well enough. I barely even know what youre getting at with your last two posts.

and yes I know what an ARB does.

Evs-One

Well, if you engineered them well enough, you shouldn't have to tell people to use a ball peen hammer to enlarge the opening of the tower.

Go get your car running

dfoxengr

like I said, that is because I prefer to weld on the outside so a slight modification is needed.

garados

iTrader: (3)

just curious, if you make the hats too tall, the bumpstop fits completely inside the hat, but what about the shock? Is the hat wide enough to allow the shock to come into the hat and interact with the bumpstop without interference?

Evs-One

No.

And you would have to have short stroke dampers/long top hats, or extremely tall top hats.

DFW

iTrader: (1)

I made these a 2-3 years back when there was a write up from 2.0L EK and Benen...worked fine.

Clipsed

iTrader: (2)

Question, how long do you recommend extending it? 1/4" 1/2"? I wanna do this.

oilspot

still thinking this one through.
If you were to just keep the stock tophat, but add a 1" spacer on the top of the exsisting bushing, you would still be opening the travel of the strut back up.
Is the strut body actually allowed to travel into the modified tophat? The only benifit I can see in the taller tower is that the stopper bushing can sit inside there. Of course if the strut body cannot travel in there what's the point.

In thinking about this I may answer my own quesiton. But for now I can't seem to see any reason a spacer on top of the tophat can't do the same thing.

oilspot

anybody???

justforfun

this looks so difficult

dfoxengr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Clipsed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question, how long do you recommend extending it? 1/4" 1/2"? I wanna do this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

more than that. I can do it for you if you want.
-derek

dfoxengr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oilspot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still thinking this one through.
If you were to just keep the stock tophat, but add a 1" spacer on the top of the exsisting bushing, you would still be opening the travel of the strut back up.
Is the strut body actually allowed to travel into the modified tophat? The only benifit I can see in the taller tower is that the stopper bushing can sit inside there. Of course if the strut body cannot travel in there what's the point.

In thinking about this I may answer my own quesiton. But for now I can't seem to see any reason a spacer on top of the tophat can't do the same thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

where are you wanting to put a spacer? i dont really understand.
and this way obviously works because it has been tested by people for about 5 years now.

Andy R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oilspot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still thinking this one through.
If you were to just keep the stock tophat, but add a 1" spacer on the top of the exsisting bushing, you would still be opening the travel of the strut back up.
Is the strut body actually allowed to travel into the modified tophat? The only benifit I can see in the taller tower is that the stopper bushing can sit inside there. Of course if the strut body cannot travel in there what's the point.

In thinking about this I may answer my own quesiton. But for now I can't seem to see any reason a spacer on top of the tophat can't do the same thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, the bump stop needs to also move up and support the diameter of the shock body in the opening.

Evs-One

The shock body won't make it inside the opening of the extended top hat- it will have hit the bump stop by then.

oilspot

Spacer. On top of non modified top hat. Let's say 1" underneath the single nut that holds the shaft of the strut. (just clearing up my idea).
Then shorten the bump stop. What good does a full length bump stop do if the shock body slams into the bottom of the modified top hat? Lets say the bump stop is 1 1/2 inch. 1 inch sits inside the modified top hat. What benefit would it have over just cutting the bumpstop down to 1/2 inch (and running a spacer on top). None at all! If anything the longer bump stop will have more flex, and will be more likely to let the strut slam into the bottom of the tophat.
I'm not saying that there is some reason that extending the tophats has a better result that just using a spacer on the top. I'm just not seeing any advantage.


Modified by oilspot at 8:27 PM 10/12/2008


Modified by oilspot at 6:30 AM 10/13/2008

oilspot

I appoligize for the childish paint image! The the tophat on the left is extended, the blue on the top is where the bolt ends up. The tophat (stock) on the right. The red is a spacer. The blue is the nut on the top. The nut is at the same height. So the internals of the shock are pulled away from the bottom of the stroke. Which is all your trying to accomplish in making taller tophats.

Andy R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oilspot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I appoligize for the childish paint image! The the tophat on the left is extended, the blue on the top is where the bolt ends up. The tophat (stock) on the right. The red is a spacer. The blue is the nut on the top. The nut is at the same height. So the internals of the shock are pulled away from the bottom of the stroke. Which is all your trying to accomplish in making taller tophats.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Adding a spacer is not giving you any advantage. putting a spacer only moves the bolt point, while the bumpstop stays in the SAME place. You may be operating in a better stroke of the shock, but you are going to hit the bump stop way too early and will just be bouncing off it

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The shock body won't make it inside the opening of the extended top hat- it will have hit the bump stop by then.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This only depends on how much you are extending the top had. The bumpstop is roughly 1.5" long. Lets say you extend your top hat 3" then yes, your shock is going to have to travel into your extended hat. If you don't allow for that, then you will be in trouble.

oilspot

The bumpstop will be cut the same amount as the spacer adds, so contact with the spacer would happen at the same time as with the extended hat.
So far from what I've seen here the shock body cannot travel inside the extended top hat.
Now If it could go inside the tophat that would explain using a taller tophat! But so far that hasn't been what people here are telling me.


The purple is the stopper, and the cut stopper..... If the shock body is going to hit the tophat (not being allowed to travel inside). What good is the spacer tucked up in there going to do. Will it lessen the impact of the shock body into the tophat???




Modified by oilspot at 7:14 AM 10/14/2008

oilspot

no answers? So does that mean there is not any advantage to extended tophats, over just cutting bumpstops down and using spacers?

Evs-One

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oilspot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> no answers? So does that mean there is not any advantage to extended tophats, over just cutting bumpstops down and using spacers?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are not thinking it through....

Imagine the lip of the shock that the washer/top hat is secured to by the top nut. Now...when you extend the top hat up, you extend the bushing mount, which the bottom washer sits against, thus, raising the shock piston up x amount, thus having a damper that is not near its bottom range of motion.

oilspot

mabey I am thinking of it wrong. Addition to drawing is stock tophat. lowered suspension. Blueish rods hanging down on all three are shock rods, and internal damper pieces (stock on the right... very close to the bottom of the stroke... bumpstop also)

levelzero

Extending the tophats works very well. I know because I make a lightweight billet aluminum version.

When you lower a car you are using shorter springs. So if you have a 2" drop, you now have 2 inches less shock/strut travel. Not only does this lead to bottoming out the shocks but it also moves the shocks/struts out of their ideal operating range. By moving the top of the mount upwards you reclaim the travel. You can accomplish the same thing by cutting and rethreading the shock stem, although they are normally very hard steel/stainless and really hard to work with.

With some drilling and minor fabricating you could use spacers, this would help prevent the shock/strut from bottoming out. You would want to use a solid piece as a stack of washers would be unstable and could lead to bending a stem.

honisoto

anyone knows anyone that is selling a set that is made already for ek?