Extended Top Hats / tophat mod

 
Old 09-12-2008, 11:04 AM
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Default Extended Top Hats / tophat mod

Whatever you want to call it, Ive done a few sets and I think they turned out well.

The bead is about 1/8" wide at the base and there is only a small area where it could hit the hole in the chassis, so hopefully it doesnt, but if it does then a light tapping with a ball peen will give the little bit of clearance. The raised portions of the stamped hat also help move the weld away from the chassis.

I also went ahead and calculated the theoretical strength in tension of the hats and came up with a factor of safety of about 10 with large suspension loads, not including a complete bottom out of the entire suspension by compression of the whole bump stop. but even then your UCA would hit the chassis before that happened anyways.

anyways here are a couple pics.

thanks and let me know what you think. my butt welds aren't as good as id like them to be, but there is full pen everywhere. but that's because i haven't had enough welding time with butts.



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Old 09-12-2008, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

Welds look just fine to me.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (Flashmn)

yeah i know, im just a little picky of my own work, lol.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

do you just saw-zaw the original piece apart ?

and how do you know much taller you want it ?
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (DaveF)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you just saw-zaw the original piece apart ?

and how do you know much taller you want it ? </TD></TR></TABLE>

bandsaw is easiest for a perfect cut, but I've used a sawzall quite a bit!

In the fronts, it depends on your shocks. Koni Yellows only allow for about 1" without modifying the hood. Stock shocks can go 1.5" in the front.

The rears you can go as high as you'd like- I usually do 2" in the rear- helps a TON!

I always weld the lower weld on the inside to make sure the hat can still sit flush in the tower- but a small flat weld shouldn't interfere.

One of my favorite DIY mods
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (Evs-One)

I use a bandsaw, and I determine the height modification based on a predetermined ratio of total travel to bump travel. I need all the measurements of course to make this ratio accurate. but in the front I can do almost 2" of extension.

-derek
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

sorry if its a dumb ques, but what benefit's are gained by doing this?
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (speeddave)

more shock travel on a lowered car. rather than being close to bottom out or bottom'd out
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (speeddave)

since you lose almost all your shock bump travel when lowering the car, this brings that travel back to normal amounts so you dont bottom out and cause damage or bad handling characteristics.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

Hey, your welds look fine. I have done a few projects like this on my Volkswagens. My 2400 lb. Quantum has been testing the tensile strength of my welds for about two years now. Yours will definitely hold.
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:30 PM
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wow those look almost just like mine, i also painted them grey, well i used a dark cast aluminum paint...pics in a minute
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: (dispocrx)

This is before i cut them down some, they are still a little high but w/e i only had to cut a tiny piece out my hood..





i might have more pics in my build thread...not sure!
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

what welding machine you use?
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:10 AM
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whats the purpose of doing this to your suspension? making it lower?
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: (9295EJ-t)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 9295EJ-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the purpose of doing this to your suspension? making it lower?</TD></TR></TABLE>
no when you got lower, youll feel the bounce when you do cutspring so tophats get rid of the bounciness
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: (e12ikktos)

how much did you extended there? look like a tight fit in the install pix..i have extended 1.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear. love it

it extends the life of the shock and have all its shock play. i feel that it also eliminate wheel hop. like when you launch you would feel that you car lifts in the front..with these top hats it wouldnt hop at launch, just grab and go..but thats just me.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: (My_EFsedan)

It essentially gives you the same effect as having an adjustable lower perch(coilovers), or shortened shocks.

When you lower the car, lets say 2", you are compressing the shock almost 2" at static height, which is getting close to the travel limits of the shock. This brings back static position of the damper(does not increase travel), to have the damper be performing at it's optimal position.

Will also reduce droop
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: (Evs-One)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It essentially gives you the same effect as having an adjustable lower perch(coilovers), or shortened shocks.

When you lower the car, lets say 2", you are compressing the shock almost 2" at static height, which is getting close to the travel limits of the shock. This brings back static position of the damper(does not increase travel), to have the damper be performing at it's optimal position.

Will also reduce droop </TD></TR></TABLE>

when you lower the car the shock travel is not reduced by 2" it is reduced by 2*motion ratio
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: (dfoxengr)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when you lower the car the shock travel is not reduced by 2" it is reduced by 2*motion ratio</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
almost 2" at static height, </TD></TR></TABLE>

Was that not good enough for you? Please educate me with the motion ratio and I will gladly figure out the exact number.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (dfoxengr)

does any one want to make/ sell me a set of these. im using koni yellows w/ eibac lowering springs
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Extended Top Hats / tophat mod (downeyballz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by downeyballz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does any one want to make/ sell me a set of these. im using koni yellows w/ eibac lowering springs</TD></TR></TABLE>

PM'd-

And it is best to weld the base plate on the inside, as there is limited(as in none), room inside the opening for a weld bead
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Old 09-14-2008, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: (dfoxengr)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when you lower the car the shock travel is not reduced by 2" it is reduced by 2*motion ratio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Motion ratio is the amount of suspension compression in relation to the amount of vertical tire movement.

So what Dfox is saying is... if you have 2" of bump * the motion ratio = amount of compression seen at the strut.

He's saying that its not a direct correlation and depends upon the motion ratio of your suspension.

But yes... you lose shock travel.

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Old 09-14-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: (.RTErnie)

I know what motion ratio is- just not the specifics of the vehicles in question

Oh, BTW:<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dispocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



i might have more pics in my build thread...not sure!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks like your top washer is upside down. Should curve upwards
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:30 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oh, BTW:

Looks like your top washer is upside down. Should curve upwards </TD></TR></TABLE>

it looks like someone also painted his car a horrid metal flake poop color.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: (.RTErnie)

Im not worried about the washer right now, im not sure if i will even be riding those springs...
Also i forgot someone said something about where the bead is...I DID Weld in the inside...i used a 220v miller machine...

.RTErnie- Obviously you havent seen my build thread, or the paint cleaned...that pic was taken with a good layer of dust/dirt on it...quit hating or get off the swingset
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