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Not Another AWD Civic Project!!!

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Old 03-19-2016, 08:11 AM   #51
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This is frustrating, IDK what is going on and I hate attaching files because it kind of gets the story out of order. I'll try this again. Basically that is everything thus far. Just final assembly and fitting it into the SBXM trans case. Pressed the diff bearings and speedo ring gear on, applied red Loctite to the threads of all of the bolts, and torqued to spec.




Final drive and transfer ring gears installed to only the bottom half of the LSD.





All bolts in with red Loctite ready for assembly.





Pretty wicked looking.





Final assembly with bearings installed





Man this thing looks mean!





Another shot





An outside shot








SBXM casing and final home for the new LSD!





Action shot!





Non action shot, but looking comfy at home...

Wow, H-T allowed me to insert photos this time. Anyways, super excited how this is coming together. Thanks for checking in. Post any questions you have and I will try to answer them all as best I can. Till next time!
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Old 03-19-2016, 04:21 PM   #52
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Looking good bud!!!
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Old 03-19-2016, 05:06 PM   #53
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Had a chance to get over to my buddy's place and use his press to pull apart the main and counter shaft to replace the bearings and synchros. Again, I was quite surprised as to the great condition this transmission is in. The needle bearings looked awesome and everything else was in order. I was actually able to take both shafts apart and put them back together in the same day. I have replaced the synchros in my B16 trans some time back and the first thing I noticed with the SBXM was the difference in the synchro design. The B16 trans uses a one piece syncro which is pretty simple. The SBXM uses a three piece design or what Honda calls a "double cone synchro." I would imagine this is for strength as the SBXM is an AWD setup, but I'm sure the H22A trans uses the same design. Maybe someone here who knows better can chime in on this.












B16 single synchro design.






SBXM synchro set.






Like I've mentioned before, I take pride in keeping a clean/pretty engine bay. I sometimes geek out in the https://honda-tech.com/honda-acura-2...ssion-1693934/ here on H-T envious most of the things I see. Some of those people are nuts BTW, but most of them might say the same about me with this project. Anyways, I powder coated my B16 trans to give is a clean look that would be easy to clean when dirty. A buddy of mine introduced me to some wheel spray paint that he swears by and actually gave me a couple of cans of it. I have my doubts especially on wheels, but I figured what the hell, I'll try it out on the trans casing. I really liked the bronze color, I figured if was for wheels then it should hold up well in the engine bay, and hey IT WAS FREE. So, I got to masking and I got to painting and I really think it is turning out nice so far.






















Started making a plan to come up with a jig for the trailing arms. That part will be easy. It's the whole cutting and pasting that will be interesting. I also sourced out a CR-V shifter assem in Europe. Someone is over there is parting out their AWD and I was able to snag that from him. Another reason it would be so nice to find a donor locally. I'm sure once I finish this damn project I will run into one. Never fails. That's all for now, stay tuned...




That's amazing, dude.! For real, lol.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:07 AM   #54
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Got the transmission back together and everything rotates/shifts nicely thus far. Even the trans casing went back together nice and easy. It's given me quite a few headaches in other transmissions trying to instal the casing before the Honda Bond dries. This one seemed to go together flawlessly. I was almost tempted to take it back apart to make sure nothing was wrong. All of my parts were gone though. No extra circlips, detent *****, springs, or even bolts when I was done. Sure the trans might be a little heavier with all of those parts in it, but at least it will shift properly. I had to wave goodbye to that beautiful LSD in hopes that I would not see it any time soon, and I sealed her up. I think it came out pretty good as far as looks, and the color is really starting to grow on me...





No clearance issues so far.





I'm gonna miss you...





But I hope we don't have to see each other any time soon...





Starting to really like this color...





Though I won't see much of it once it's in the engine bay.





Shot of the shifting mechanism.





Before...





And after.





Came out pretty nice.

Alright, next step is to pull the motor and LS trans so we can throw a "welcome home" party for the SBXM. I have a feeling the SBXM and the B20B will be thoroughly excited to see each other. They'll be making sweet music together in no time. Also might be getting started on those damn rear trailing arms soon. Something is telling me those are going to be the bitch of the project.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:50 PM   #55
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Sick car
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:57 PM   #56
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Got started on the trailing arms. We may be over engineering these things, but the idea is to make them strong and structurally sound. The goal is also to use factory Honda parts and be able to service those parts. I've see other people just weld the wheel bearing assemblies onto the trailing arms. I don't see how you would be able to service those once they go bad, and they do go bad. I am also planning of setting these up with disc brakes and ditching the drums.





Had to start somewhere





In the jig.








Over engineered?





Tacked up





Probably should have sand blasted these things first.





Cut the tabs off of the carrier assembly.





This is what is left of the of the CR-V trailing arms







We cut the mounting tabs off of the carrier assembly that the wheel bearings bolt into thinking that it would make life easier. I don't think this is very smart though, and Honda did put them there for a reason. So we are not going to cut any corners and do the work to allow the carrier to bolt into the trailing arm. Unfortunately, Honda does not sale carrier by itself, so I will have to go back to the pick-n-pull to grab another one. It's a start though. Thanks for checking in!
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:15 AM   #57
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Out with the old, and in with the new... well, just out with the old at this point. I really will miss my LS trans, and I am really hoping the gearing feels somewhat close though I am having my doubts about this. That's fine though, I do want to see how everything works out in factory trim and what brakes before I really start building things. I've had the engine and trans out of this car so many times, I'm just about at NASCAR speed with it. Ugh, did I just say that? I meant 24 Hours of LeMons speed. Not even sure what my options are at this point for changing the gearing in the SBXM at this point. I've been told that a B16 and B18C mainshaft will fit right in the SBXM. If that is the case, the B17 mainshaft should work in theory as it has the same part number as the B18C. Anyways, that is for another time. Just trying to get this thing back on the road for now...





This thing looks a lot bigger or bulkier than a FWD B series trans.








Gotta have at least 17 pieces of flare!





Uh oh...





OH ****!

Wel, looks like someone didn't do their homework on this one. For some reason I was thinking normal B series trans mount was going to bolt right up. How did I miss this one? Oh well, I'll just order one up from Honda. What's that? Honda discontinued the trans bracket for the CR-V? Ya, Honda still makes all of the other brackets except for this one of course. Guess that's why I saw most other people making their own. Yet ANOTHER reason it would be so great if I could find a donor manual AWD CR-V locally. Like I've said, one of my goals is to use as many Honda factory parts as possible for this project. I'll be making some calls to see if I can source this damn bracket out.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:43 PM   #58
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Gonna have to subscribe to this one.
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:29 PM   #59
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Are you going to have to do anything to the gas tank when you put the rear end in?
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:57 PM   #60
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Nice fab work on the rear trailing arms
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:15 AM   #61
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Gonna have to subscribe to this one.


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Are you going to have to do anything to the gas tank when you put the rear end in?
Well... great question. I've looked at and seen a couple of different options. The plan is to use the CR-V fuel tank at this point, which I haven't seen anyone do. I would love to try a Civic Shuttle AWD or a Civic Ferio RTSi, but those are near impossible to get a hold of and I can't imagine what the cost would be. Especially if they didn't work out. All of those vehicles are a little longer than the hatchback, so I am having my doubts that the fuel tanks will work. If I can't get the CR-V tank to fit like I want it to, I will do a fuel cell most likely in the spare tire area where my battery sits now.

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Nice fab work on the rear trailing arms
Thanks!! I'll tell my buddy you said that. I wish that was my skills
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:58 PM   #62
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I have the transmission bracket you need from a CR-V and the rear triangle mount from the CR-V too... I don't know if you have it, but you need that too. Let me know if you are intersted.

Also, did you use the CR-V speedo gear or the one from a regular b series transmisison? They are different because of the different tire diameter on the CR-V. On mine I had to change it to a regular b-series transmission speedo gear for the speedometer to be accurate. Otherwise, it will be offset.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:40 PM   #63
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I have the transmission bracket you need from a CR-V and the rear triangle mount from the CR-V too... I don't know if you have it, but you need that too. Let me know if you are intersted.

Also, did you use the CR-V speedo gear or the one from a regular b series transmisison? They are different because of the different tire diameter on the CR-V. On mine I had to change it to a regular b-series transmission speedo gear for the speedometer to be accurate. Otherwise, it will be offset.
Ya, I talked to the shop I got the transmission from and they are sending me the bracket for a small fee. I saw another SBXM they had for sale and it had the bracket on it, so I was like "mine didn't come with that, wanna give it to me?" That didn't slide. I also figured out that the rear bracket wasn't going to work either, but Honda does still offer that one, so I ordered one up. Thanks for looking out though!

I am using the CR-V VSS for now. Wasn't sure what the difference was going to be. I'm running 205/40 17 atm and thinking of moving to a 215/40 17. Not sure how that compares to the size of the CR-V tires. Guess I'll find out. What size tire are you running, and is this in a CR-V or different vehicle?
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:55 PM   #64
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It is in a civic with with the CR-V transmission on 205 50 15 tires, so very similar diameter as the original civic tires (about 23'' diameter). The CR-V stock tires are 205 70 15 (about 26.5'' diameter). The difference is pretty big, the speed offset would be 15% if using the CR-V speedo gear and vss with civic size tires. In your case, for 205 40 17, the diameter is about 23.5''. Much closer to the civic's tire outside diameter.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:56 PM   #65
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It is in a civic with with the CR-V transmission on 205 50 15 tires, so very similar diameter as the original civic tires (about 23'' diameter). The CR-V stock tires are 205 70 15 (about 26.5'' diameter). The difference is pretty big, the speed offset would be 15% if using the CR-V speedo gear and vss with civic size tires. In your case, for 205 40 17, the diameter is about 23.5''. Much closer to the civic's tire outside diameter.
Huh, good to know. Actually I didn't even take this into consideration. It's all the little things that add up. Seriously though, who doesn't want to believe they are going faster than they really are?? Sounds like I'll have to rob from LS to pay CR-V. Thanks for the heads-up.

BTW, I'm interested to hear about your set-up. AWD Civic or did you opt to use the CR-V FWD trans with the B20?
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:04 AM   #66
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So I was geekin out over the weekend and playing around with MFactory's calculator. It's a pretty nifty tool that really gives you a good idea of how a little change can make a big difference in your gearing. My worry is that I am not going to like the gearing in the SBXM, especially coming from the LS trans. This is a turbo set-up and having longer gears is really nice. I absolutely hated the gearing in my B16. Don't get me wrong, it was great for NA trim, but once I went turbo I just burned through the gears. And highway driving in the B16, I wanted to eat a bullet after about 10 miles.

I've been running a 205/40 17 for a long time now and I don't plan on buying a new set of wheels any time soon. What I am planning on doing is going to a 215/40 17 to get a slightly larger surface area to the ground for more grip. I'd go to a 225, but I just don't see that fitting without dramatically raising the car. I've heard of tire size effecting gear ratios, but to actually see it using this calculator is interesting. Going from a 205 to a 215 does't make a significant difference, but there is a change.

Something else I was playing around with was using MFactory's 3.07 1st gear. I've been told that a B16 and B18C main shaft will fit into the SBXM trans. I am very curious as to if this is true, so if anyone out there can confirm this please do. This same person said that whatever main shaft I use with the 3.07 1st, I would have to use the corresponding 2nd gear with it. What is interesting to me is that the B18C and B17 LS main shafts have the same part numbers. If I could get back to the gearing of the LS, that would be fantastic. Unfortunately, I don't think that will be in my near future.





205/40 17 LS vs. CR-V





LS FD in CR-V w/ MFactory 1st vs. CR-V w/ MFactory 1st.






It's interesting to see what a little change in the final drive can do. I have no idea if one can get the LS FD to fit and function in the CR-V. Doing so doesn't seem to do much for the RPM, but it does change the MPH a bit. Not sure it would be worth it. I don't see a huge difference in adding the MFactory 3.07 1st gear either. Sure it is a longer gear and instead of shifting a 36 MPH, it will take you to 42-43 MPH. What I don't like is that shifting into 2nd puts the RPMs at 5200 where as the stock CR-V 1st puts you at 4700 RPM in 2nd. That RPM in 2nd would be great in NA, but not in a boosted situation. This is just looking at it on paper though. I would like to actually see/feel the difference to make a final determination on it.




CR-V w/ 215/40 17 vs. 205/40 17





CR-V 5th @ 80mph = 4200 RPM





LS 5th @ 80mph = 3400 RPM

You can see there is a significant difference in RPM between the LS and CR-V at a cruising speed of 80 MPH. I have seen someone (OneBadTurboCRV) put the LS 5th gear into the CR-V with mild modifications. I'll be taking a page out of his book and adding this mod later in the future.

My thought process with the gearing right now is all based on the 1/4 mile as this is what my weekend warrior sees from time to time. It's nothing major that has to be changed as I am not in competition. Like I said, I was just geeking out on it and thought I would share. I would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions/crazy ideas if anyone has any.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:40 AM   #67
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Got the bracket for the transmission mount that Honda no longer makes. Thank you OneBadTurboCRV and etistl for offering to help me out with that. If I had been prepared for that, I would have just gotten it from one of you guys. I removed the dampener off of it because lets face it, it's just plain ugly. That and it's going to have to be A LOT bigger to dampen anything with these Hasport mounts. I'll powder coat it later so it looks pretty like the other ones...













Turns out I like the looks of this bracket better anyways. It's not as big and bulky as the Civic bracket. The rear trans/motor bracket is different too of course, and I have one on the way this time from a Honda dealer. Can I say it again?? Would have been awesome to have a donor AWD manual CR-V locally to rape for these parts!! Oh well, I'll make due. Wasn't planning on pulling the whole motor, but it looks like I will have to now. It's only like 5 more bolts anyways. Then I'll mate the trans to the motor and stick the pig back in. Yeah I know, I'm moving slow and this is nothing really exciting...BUT I'M HAVING FUN! Thanks for checking it out.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:01 AM   #68
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Let's talk turbo, that's always seems to be an interesting subject. I have been running the GT3076R for some time now and it has been a great selection for my set-up on the street, and in the 1/4 once in a while. It has been very impressive and is even producing more HP than Garrett claims it will do. That being said, it is maxed out. I've really had no reason to upgrade the turbo to get more HP & Tq as that would increase my traction problems making all that power even more useless. Now that we are putting traction to all four wheels, I am considering to continue the search for more giddy-up. I am already planning on having to make a new down pipe due to a transfer case that is now going to be in the way and also running a new manifold. Another problem I have noticed is the clearance now from where the turbo exhaust housing is to the clutch slave cylinder on the trans is pretty tight for a 3" down pipe. To give me room there I have to ditch the 4 bolt to V-band adapter and either have a v-flange welded to the existing housing, or buy a whole new v-band housing. Currently I am running a .63 turbine housing and I have flirted with the idea of moving to a .82, to 1) delay the spool up and 2) get a few more HP at the top. The thinking here is that the delay in spool would help with traction as I am not shredding the tires so quickly in the lower RPM. Now that I am going AWD, that may not be an issue AND may even be better to have the quicker spool. This is something I really won't know until I am driving the car. Another thing I was thinking is that if I do move to a bigger turbo, most likely I am going to have to switch to a T4 and that would mean that I would have to cut and paste a T4 flange onto that brand new beautiful turbo housing I am about to install. The thought of cutting that manifold up and the fact that I really don't have $1000+ to drop on a new turbo has made my decision for me. I'm sticking with my trusty 3076R and seeing if I can squeeze anymore out of it. I've been looking around and there are a few companies that make a drop in/direct fit billet aluminum compressor wheel. They claim significant increases (50-60hp!!), but I have my doubts to that being true. I do believe though that the turbo will be a little more efficient and I will see some benefits to it. I also decided to stay with the .63 A/R housing for now instead of spending $300-400 for a .82. I also found a shop locally that welded a v-band flange onto my housing for $60, so that was a no brainer.













I'm sure it will be tight, but this gives me a little more room to play with. Still hoping that the bends on the down pipe coming out of the housing are not going to be too extreme. Guess I could always point it up and out of the hood. Maybe when I have 900whp. Besides, I do like my exhaust quite. I've been running a Thermal Exhaust 3" system for a while now that I absolutely love the sound of. The plan is to retain as much as that system as possible.

So, lets hear some thoughts... .63 vs. .82 housing and billet aluminum compressor wheel for the GT3076R.

Readyyyyyyy........ GO!
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Old 04-24-2016, 08:33 AM   #69
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I didn't hear any feedback from anybody, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a billet aluminum compressor wheel for the 3076R. I found a wheel on eBay from a shop in Oregon that has been in business for 19 years now. The wheel was $200 with claims of 50-60 horsepower increase. I figured what the hell, I'll try it out and do my on little testing on it. As I said before, I have my doubts that this will give that much more hp, but even if it increases by 20hp that's not too bad.

I contacted the seller (turbochargingsystems) before hand to make sure this would be a direct drop in bolt on for my 3076R. They said it was and that it wouldn't even need to be balanced. So I purchased the item and waited. I received the wheel a few days later, and I was quite surprised upon opening the box. The billet wheel was beautiful and appeared to be of very good quality as far as the machining that had been done. I played around with it and took my turbo apart only to find that the wheel did not fit into the compressor housing.The diameter of the inducer and exducer was too big, just what I was afraid of. I emailed the seller concerning the problem and after establishing that I did in fact have an authentic Garrett turbo, I got a phone call from Kent at Turbochargingsystems. He didn't want to mess around with the back and forth emails and wanted to address the situation directly. What's that? Good customer service you say? How bout great customer service! After figuring out that there had been a mix up on the data sheet for the different compressor wheels, he determined that he did send me the bigger compressor wheel that has the same specs as the GTX compressor wheel. He was very apologetic and offered to service, machine the compressor housing for the bigger wheel, install, and balance the assembly free of charge. He even paid for shipping!! So off my turbo went and back it came.





11 blade billet aluminum design





GT3076R wheel





Backside of billet wheel





Backside of 3076R wheel














GT3076R wheel





Compressor housing machined





Now that is purdy




With all of this work done, this 3076R should now be upgraded to the GTX specifications. We may in deed see a 50-60 hp increase after all. Only the dyno will tell. I want to thank Kent over at turbochargingsystems in Oregon. He really went all out to take care of this situation. If you get a chance, check him out. He also has a Facebook page that he is constantly updating.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:43 AM   #70
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Is the crv rear end a 1:1 ratio? Can you post a link to the Facebook page for turbocharging Systems?
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:21 AM   #71
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In for the updates!
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:42 PM   #72
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Is the crv rear end a 1:1 ratio? Can you post a link to the Facebook page for turbocharging Systems?
I'm not really sure what you mean by 1:1. The RT4WD system (the rear diff) uses clutches and pumps very similar to an automatic transmission. Put quite simply, when there is slippage of the front wheels, the two hydraulic pumps in the rear begin to produce pressure which engages the clutch pack. Thus slowly locking up and allowing the drive line to drive the diff and turn the CV axles. I'm sure there is more to it, but it is a fairly simple system. So I don't think it is ever a true 1:1 ratio system. BUUUUUUUUT, my plan is to delete that system and lock the rear with the drive line, which I guess, would then make it a 1:1 ratio. The RT4WD is basically a buffer system for the rear portion of the driveline. By deleting that system I will be converting the AWD to 4WD. I will find out very quickly how much abuse this system can take without it's ability to buffer torque.

I did forget to provide a link... The Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turbo...28013520577284
It looks like someone was pretty pissed and hacked the page recently. I didn't notice all the comments and the address on there before. Kind of funny. Like I said, I had a great experience with Turbocharger Systems and Kent went all out to provide excellent customer service and hooked me up. Can't please everybody though. The website to the store is Products | "Turbocharger Systems" meeting all your turbocharged needs.
Though I have only had one encounter with them, I highly recommend them.

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In for the updates!
Right on!
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:25 PM   #73
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I'm not really sure what you mean by 1:1. The RT4WD system (the rear diff) uses clutches and pumps very similar to an automatic transmission. Put quite simply, when there is slippage of the front wheels, the two hydraulic pumps in the rear begin to produce pressure which engages the clutch pack. Thus slowly locking up and allowing the drive line to drive the diff and turn the CV axles. I'm sure there is more to it, but it is a fairly simple system. So I don't think it is ever a true 1:1 ratio system. BUUUUUUUUT, my plan is to delete that system and lock the rear with the drive line, which I guess, would then make it a 1:1 ratio. The RT4WD is basically a buffer system for the rear portion of the driveline. By deleting that system I will be converting the AWD to 4WD. I will find out very quickly how much abuse this system can take without it's ability to buffer torque.

I did forget to provide a link... The Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/pages/Turbo...28013520577284
It looks like someone was pretty pissed and hacked the page recently. I didn't notice all the comments and the address on there before. Kind of funny. Like I said, I had a great experience with Turbocharger Systems and Kent went all out to provide excellent customer service and hooked me up. Can't please everybody though. The website to the store is Products | "Turbocharger Systems" meeting all your turbocharged needs.
Though I have only had one encounter with them, I highly recommend them.



Right on!
Thanks, that makes sense! I'm not familiar at all with the RT4wd system. I thought it was more along the lines of a rear end in a truck. Do you think removing the hydraulic stuff will lower the torque capacity?
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Old 04-27-2016, 07:02 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by scottcraft View Post
Thanks, that makes sense! I'm not familiar at all with the RT4wd system. I thought it was more along the lines of a rear end in a truck. Do you think removing the hydraulic stuff will lower the torque capacity?
No, it just bypasses the RT4WD system altogether. If anything, it may lower the tq capacity just because of the sheer forces that will be applied directly to it. In many aspects the RT4WD system is a buffer for those forces. It's much like a strut on a suspension where it negates the transfer of rough road surfaces to the chassis. If you have ever seen a vehicle lowered and sitting on it's bump stops, you know what I mean. With the RT4WD system, the rear end never really saw full tq. It always plays "catch up" with the front wheels, and once the two pumps in the rear diff equal out (front and rear wheels are same speeds), it's work was done. I will be asking it to move in unison with the front wheels at all times. The diff will be locked to the propeller shaft which will be locked to the transmission. This may cause some significant and possibly catastrophic problems. This is also why most people opt to use the Civic AWD Wagon rear diff and prop shaft with VC coupler. That rear end is stronger and the VC is the buffer system that actually engages much quicker than the CR-V system from what I have read.
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:21 AM   #75
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Default Re: Not Another AWD Civic Project!!!

The RT4WD system can be made to actuate much faster and still be left intact. An alternative is to use the newer design of the rear differential, but upgrades are still required for very fast activation and power to be put down safely.

As previously stated above, the system is designed around being buffered. It's a shame Honda didn't design it to handle full torque, but then again the B20 doesn't exactly have high power number to begin with. This is where using K-series based rear differentials come into play.

Even the viscous couplers and shuttle rear ends have their limits. There are other options, but you will be in the thousands of dollars after it's all said and done (don't ask me how I know). All that and we haven't even touched on the other weak link - the transfer case... Just how deep are your pockets exactly?
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