mdpalmer

After a whole lot of searching with a lot of irrelavant (and some useful) stuff, I'm making this post.

I just purchased a Harbor Freight Aluminum Racing Jack http://www.harborfreight.com/c...91039 and a pair or 2 ton jackstands http://store.yahoo.com/joeztools/2tonjacstan.html in order to start some routine maintenance on my hatch-integra. My car is down about 2" from stock height. Tire diamter is within 1/4" of stock.

When I got the stuff, I ran out and

1. jacked my car up from the front jacking point (the one on the longitudinal centerline of the car). noticed that the floor jack was working pretty well, until the last 1/3 of maximum height. the floor jack was lifting off of the ground, directly under the pumping lever (right where the floor jack's wheels sit on the ground). I continued to pump to full height and the floor jack shifted a bit so the wheels were touching the ground again. Is this normal?
2. then tried to fit the jack stands, which were set at the lowest setting, under the front support points (the ones directly behind the front wheels).
3. screamed out "fwck!!" when I discovered that they didn't quite make it. I measured the clearance, and I think that I need about another 1/2" shorter stands or 1/2" higher lift.
4. jacked up the car from the rear tow hook. noticed that the padding on the liftpad of the floor jack was starting to slip off! lowered car and tried again, after shifting the pad slightly toward the front of the car (trying to keep the towhook from slipping off of the liftpad). same thing happened. I got the floor jack to about 3/4 max height and stopped. at that point, the tow hook almost looked like it was going to slip off the liftpad.
5. tried to fit stands under rear support points. "fwck!!" way too short--need at least another inch or so.

So here are my questions (feel free to add anything to your response that may be helpful):

1. Can you direct me to another resource (so you don't have to waste your breath) which discusses proper lifting/supporting a 2800 lb car?
2. If not 1., then what do you think is the best/easiest way to lift and support the car safely, without the use of auxillary equipment (i.e. ramps, blocks of wood, help from friends, etc.), for
a) front only
b) rear only
c) the front and rear
d) sides only (safe?)
e) one corner (safe on stands?)
3. What the hell is happening with my floor jack? Is it normal for
a) jack lifting off ground when lifting front of car (front lift point)
b) rubber pad sliding off liftpad when lifting rear of car (tow hook)
4. Is it safe for the car and my health to lift one side of the car at a time?
a) if so, where can I lift from (besides the recommended lift/support points)?somewhere between the support points, like under the doors? or perhaps on suspension components?
b) can I set the car on one jack stand at a time (say, jack up one side of car and place stands; jack up other side of car and place stands; or jack up one corner of the car, place stand and jack up other corner and place 2nd stand)? it appears that my floor jack fits right under my car on the side of the car, so this may be a solution.
5. can you elaborate on "blocking the wheels not being lifted"? block both front AND rear of wheels not being lifted? what do you use to do this? (wheel chocks, 2x4s, etc.)

Sorry for the redundant post, as I know people have written a lot about this in the past. Thanks again.


Modified by mdpalmer at 11:40 PM 9/16/2004


Modified by mdpalmer at 11:40 PM 9/16/2004


Modified by mdpalmer at 11:41 PM 9/16/2004

civic93black

you can not be serious about this. And a 2800lb car is NOT by any means heavy, considering most weigh about 3500 and trucks weigh over 4000 lbs. And NO the jack should not lift off the ground. You are doing something wrong. And you dont want to jack up the tow hook. ITs a TOW hook, not a jack hook. Jack the rear up by sliding the jack under the rear cross member between the two tires. It will lift the whole rear at once and the jack stands will fit. ADam

mdpalmer

I'm quite serious about this. Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote at length about it. So jacking up on the tow hook is bad just because it's a TOW hook? Seeing as it's a pretty solid part of the frame, I don't see any harm in doing this other than the possibility of the tow hook slipping off of the floor jack. The Helms service manual declares the tow hook as a spot for lifting with a floor jack.

Regarding me doing something wrong: do you have some other insight on this--like WHY the thing is lifting off of the floor? Sure, the car is relatively lightweight, and sure, the jack is small and of limited capacity, but that doesn't mean the thing should lift off of the ground. I've seen many others who haven't had problems and in fact have praised the utility and efficacy of the floor jack, under similar circumstances as mine.

In my post, I detailed my procedure. Hopefully someone can point out what is flawed. Perhaps the jack itself is not working properly. When one jacks his/her car up, the jack will slide toward the rear of the car as the car is lifted, correct? I think that there may be a problem with the jack sliding in this manner, leading to it getting stuck and the cars' weight causing some overturning effect on the jack. Otherwise, thanks for your advice.

JimBlake

On my Hondas the rear center tow loop IS the jacking point recommended by the owner's manual & Helm book. But I agree the jack shouldn't lift off the ground. Was something preventing the jack's wheels from rolling as you raised it?

mdpalmer

There is nothing preventing the jack from moving, aside from friction on the ground and in the bearings of the rollers. BTW, I tried this on both smooth asphalt and concrete surfaces with same results. Thanks for the reply.

eda6

Tools from Harbor Freight suck. That's your problem. When i started doing sheetmetal I bought some tools from Harbor Freight. My next paycheck I had to replace every tool I bought from them. They're prices are nice, but their products suck.

Harbor freight is like one of those 99 cent stores except they sell tools.

mdpalmer

Yeah, that's funny, i got the same feeling when I walked in the store andmade my purchase... thanks for your telling me about your experience.

acy76

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eda6 hb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tools from Harbor Freight suck. </TD></TR></TABLE> I agree with this, at the risk of disagreement from other members. I've broken a few of their tools myself.

I would recommend a piece of 2X4 wood to add some lift height to your jack. There is nothing wrong with doing this, as long as the wood is not slipping around on the jack pad or lift point.

Additionally, the wood can act as a much better pad on the jack than the rubber can -- as it compresses a bit, it really bites into the contours of the jack and chassis, especially at the rear tow hook (which is a perfectly fine way to raise the rear of the car).

With a lowered vehicle, you'll probably run into many situations where jacks aren't working like you think they should.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But I agree the jack shouldn't lift off the ground. Was something preventing the jack's wheels from rolling as you raised it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Look into this -- the lifting should not occur.

Don't try and use the jack on the suspension or on the rocker panels. You will bend things quickly.

eda6

I didn't read your entire post. I saw the words "harbor frieght and problem" and knew what was up. Get your money back.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mdpalmer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, that's funny, i got the same feeling when I walked in the store andmade my purchase... thanks for your telling me about your experience.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I like helping people out.

chad

Your jack lifted off the ground because you were on a rough surface and the jack was not able to roll....

chad

another reason you bought the CHEAPER of the two aluminum jacks!

chad

this is the better jack

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...47246

mdpalmer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your jack lifted off the ground because you were on a rough surface and the jack was not able to roll....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

In one of my previous posts, I stated that I was on smooth asphalt and concrete. Myself and others pointed out this possibility.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another reason you bought the CHEAPER of the two aluminum jacks!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cheapness doesn't always imply lack of quality. In this case, the less expensive floor jack doesn't have the "rapid pump" feature. One could argue that the extra valving and moving parts involved in the more pricey model would actually improve the chances of having a (hydraulic) failure. Otherwise, both models share the same build quality and many of the other parts too. The only other performance difference is in lift height; the one I have lifts to 15.125" while the other goes to 17.5", for a difference of 2.375". Yeah, it's quite a bit.

But guess what? I went out there to try again, and checked the rolling resistance of the roller (the one that sits under the lift pad). The freaking thing wouldn't really budge--at all. I loosened both of the roller wheel axle nuts which fasten to the housing on the jack and jacked away, as before. Voila! Not any problems at all. Did the same thing on the front and rear of the car. My stands barely fit underneath, but at least I got it working. Unfortunately, upon putting the nuts back on, the damn thing locks up again. I'm going to go back to HF and have a talk with them

chad

the jack you have is a smaller version of the 129.99 jack....maybe that is just too much weight on the roller???

mdpalmer

Maybe it's too much weight... but I don't think it is. The jack is rated at 3000 lbf, my car weighs about 2800 lbf.. and, assuming most lifting equipment is designed to hold about 30% more than the rated capacity, we have about 3900 lbf or so we could lift. But you guys know better than I would about the rollers. Aren't they supposed to freely roll? I mean, you take your fingers, run them on the wheel and the damn thing should spin right? Kind of like any other wheel--bicycle, skateboard, whatever. After loosening the roller bolts, the thing worked fine--no creaking or lifting of the floor jack at all. Tighten them up--and the ****** lifts off the ground again. I'm going to HF this weekend to straighten things out. Thanks for your help.