BoostinTEG

first of all i have searched!

when KOEO the main relay clicks super fast and the dash lights flash at the same speed...

all grounds are good!
its not the thermostat housing ground.
ive run out of ideas all my wirings good
and ive resoldered my main relay twice.

it wasnt doing this yesterday it worked fine then, fuel pump primed and everything.

civickiller

battery good? sound like weak battery

try stick in a known good battery

BoostinTEG

Yes, the battery is fine.
It is brand new and has a 100% charge.

The main relay is also fine, it is a know good relay plus i tried 2 other relays out of my buddys car as well.

The only time it flashes is KOEO and when ECU is plugged in. And it is a known good ecu. The "A" plug in on the ecu is what triggers it, B and D dont affect it at all.

could this be caused by a short in the wiring? A fuse?
im puzzled and i only have 5 days to get this car on the road..

BoostinTEG

Update

I jumped A2+A4 grounds from the plug to battery negative. No difference.

I then jumped A12+A14 green/black wires to their rightful place on the main relay with new wire to check for shorts. No difference.

I jumped the A13+A15 to the main relay with new wire..
this is whats causing the clicking. the two yellow/black wires, when they are connected it makes the main relay+ dash lights freak out.

****Pins listed above from the obd0 side of the harness****

what could cause this??? the relays not bad.
the ecu is also not bad.. because i plugged it in on my other car and it worked perfectly fine.

so far:
Main relays fine.
Ecu is fine.
Wires are not shorting between the main relay and Ecu.
its not a ground problem via A2/A4.

I have completely run out of ideas..
i need help!
this just happened overnight it wasnt doing this 2 days ago..

BoostinTEG

Just tried jumping the ground on for the relay.. still no luck.
I followed the thermostat grounds back to the source and checked for shorts ect cleaned the surface for the second time and re grounded. nope still doing the same thing.

I guess im calling it a day, time to walk to work..

if anyone has any ideas let me know i'm about to give up.

HondaPartsHero

How are your battery terminals and cable? Tight, clean, grounded to engine and frame? Power cable good to fuse box?

civickiller

basic, fuses all good? underdash, engine bay

fcm

Clicking relays almost always indicate a grounding problem.

The yellow/blacks are IPG1 and IPG2 inputs to the ECU/ECM from the fuel injector relay in the PGM-FI Main Relay, they are 12V+, [output from relay to ECU/ECM] that 12V+ output also goes to injectors, [through injector resistor if used].

Have you tried grounding the PGM-FI Main Relays ground lead, [black] to chassis ground?

Have you tried supplying a ground, [from chassis] directly to the green/black on the PGM-FI Main Relay, [ground input from ECU/ECM for fuel pump relay control]. 94

BoostinTEG

Yes the terminals are tight everythings is clean and grounded, and it has a good connection to the fuse box.

Yup all fuses are good.

I have tried grounding the PGM-FI main relay to the chassis, but i have not yet tried grounding the green/black wires to chassis yet.

Ill try that tomarrow, hopefully it'll help.

BoostinTEG

are you sure were talking about the same green/black wires??

the two green/black wires from the relay have power running through them i checked them with a multimeter.

Also checked the continuity of all the grounds. All of them are good.

BoostinTEG

The two green/black wires going into the same slot on the main relay have power.
So what your saying is these are supposed to be ground??
when i disconnect them from the main relay the relay stops clicking.

could this be my problem?

fcm

When the ECU/ECM is not sending the ground signal to the fuel pump relays coil you will read 12V+ on the lead[s], you are reading the 12V+ on the other side of the relays coil.

I will check today to make sure the relay wiring is the same on your 91 Civic and the 91 Integra wiring diagram I am looking at.

I have...

Black - ground.
Black/yellow - 12V+ switched, [hot in run and start].
Yellow/black 1 - fuel injector relay output, 12V+ to ECU/ECM, [2 inputs] and fuel injectors.
Yellow/white - 12V+ constant, [hot at all times].
Blue/white - 12V+ switched, [hot during cranking to start only].
Green/black - ground signal from ECU/ECM to fuel pump relay, [ground for a few sec. when ign. switch turned on, then will test as 12V+].
Yellow/black 2 - 12V+ [fuel pump relay output].

Unplug the PGM-FI Main Relay and test for 12V+ on the 3 input leads.
Whatever the colors are you will have...
12V+ constant, [hot at all times] should be yellow/white.
12V+ switched, [hot when ign. switch is on] should be black/yellow.
12V+ switched, [hot when cranking to start only] should be blue/white.

Confirm you have the above, [3 powers] and that wire colors are the same or what colors they are.

You can also test fuel pump by jumping from your 12V+ constant, [yellow/white] to the fuel pump power lead, [yellow/black 2] you should hear the pump, you can do the same for the injectors by jumping from the 12V+ constant, [yellow/white] to the injector power lead, [yellow/black] and testing for power at the injector plugs.

The above assumes the wire colors you have are the same as I described. 94

BoostinTEG

Just to make it a little bit easier i made a diagram of my harness and labeled the inputs on it. (this is the side in which the wires insert into)



okay so i did some tests on the wiring, i didnt get around to all the tests you told me to do. But i will, i just didnt have time. I have to go to work in a few.

SO, with relay unplugged and key off i got these readings:
1. 0
2. empty
3. 0
4. 0
5. 0
6. 0
7. 0
8. 12v+

with key on:
1. 00.6 volts
2. empty
3. 0
4. 0
5. 0
6. 12v+
7. 0
8. 12v+

now with relay plugged in key off:
1. 0
2. empty
3. 0
4. 0
5. 12v+
6. 0
7. 0
8. 0

now with relay plugged in and key on:
1. 6volts
2. empty
3. 0
4. 0
5. 0.9volts
6. 6.8volts
7. 8.7volts
8. 9.8volts

fcm

Something is obviously very wrong, looks like the yellow, [#8] is your 12V+ constant, why it looses power when relay is plugged in I do not understand.
Black/yellow, [#6] looks like it is switched power, [hot when ign. switch is on] the same goes for it, why it drops to 6.8V+ when relay is plugged in I do not understand, both the 12V+ constant and the 12V+ switched should still be 12V+ when relay is plugged in and key on, they are power inputs.

Are you sure the yellow, [#8] s not a yellow/white, [may be hard to see the white tracer].

The blue/white, [#3] should be 12V+ only when cranking to start.

The two yellow/black, [#7] will be the injector realy output, to ECU/ECM and the injectors.

The yellow/black, [#5] will be fuel pump relay output, to fuel pump.

Supply power, [12V+] to the yellow/black, [#5] and see if fuel pump turns on, do the same with black/yellows, [#7] and see if you have power at the injectors.
Do the above with the relay unplugged. 94

BoostinTEG

Alright, thanks for your help i will do this tomarrow morning.
The reason its loosing voltage may be because my battery wasnt fully charged?
It had 3/4 charge, because i didnt have access to a battery charger/jumpers till now.
Ill fully charge it tomarrow and do the tests mentioned.
I just dont know how this could happen overnight?

just 2 days ago my car was getting fuel+injectors where spraying but no spark, the wierd part is i didnt even touch my wiring before this happened it just happened overnight.
and ive swapped out ecu's and main relays.

BoostinTEG

I took a closer look today, and yes it is in fact a yellow/white instead of a (yellow).

I did the above tests this morning with relay unplugged, and the fuel pump did prime.
but i am not getting power to the injectors when 12v+ pinned directly to the black/yellow wires.

(took multimeter to both injector plugs and the plug in which the yellow/blacks go to before pinning out to the injectors by the brake reservior.

when i pinned a direct 12v+ source to the black/yellows, my green light on my ecu started to flash though. (Neptune rtp ostrich w/clear cover) which blinks when my car is either running or plugged into the computer.

BoostinTEG

More observations:
When the plug (in which the power wires for the injectors go into) is unplugged, my main relay no longer clicks, and my fuel pump primes..



^^^
This is a picture of the plug im talking about.
Although this is not my car and my resistor box has been removed.

fcm

Sounds like you may have a shorted out injector.

Try unplugging the injectors and plugging the pictured plug back in and see if the PGM-FI Main Relay is still OK, no clicking, if so plug the injectors in one at a time untill you find the bad one, relay will start clicking again.

If PGM-FI Main Relay still clicks with injectors unplugged, check the leads between the plug and the injectors for a short. 94

BoostinTEG

Alright ill try this and get back with results.
Tomarrow is my day off so ill reply then.

BoostinTEG

So turns out a power and ground wire for one of the injectors got crushed under the fuel rail. They cracked open and caused a short.. Problem solved!!
Thanks for the help guys.

Now on to a new problem... not getting spark.
New thread started haha

fcm

Sometimes it's just the stupidest little thing.

No spark, the power for the injectors, [that got shorted out] is from the injector relay in the PGM-FI Main Relay, the output from the injector relay supplies power to the injectors and a 12V+ "signal" to the ECU/ECM, [IPG1 and IPG2] both these inputs to the ECU/ECM must have power to get spark and for the fuel pump relay to work, check the two IPG inputs to the ECU/ECM to make sure they are powered when ign. switch is on.

There is also a possibility the ECU/ECM is damaged because of the short, the IPG inputs leads are common with the fuel injector power leads, one shorts out they are all shorted out.
Do you have access to another ECU/ECM to try?

And just to be sure, check for power to the distributor assembly, [black/yellow] when ign. switch is in both the run and start positions. 94

BoostinTEG

Okay so today i ruled out the following with the no spark issue.
-IPG1+IPG2 both getting 12v+ key on.
-Coil isn't the problem swapped in a brand new one today.
-Main relay isnt the problem its brand new.
-ECU is not the problem, swapped in buddy's known working ecu.
-The black/yellow wire going to the distributor is getting 12v+

haha im stumped.