ribal_gh

Thanks for the info.
How much r u lowered now with the 450/400 ?
Can you go with 1 finger Gap with these spring rate?

ribal_gh

Currently runnning this setup or u r planning to do so ?

98civdx

450/350 should be fine with a 1 finger gap.

QKRTHNU

I'm also looking for suggestions on spring rates.

After destroying my front lower bar and oil pan and eating through tires I've decided to raise the car up to about .5"-1" below stock height.

I want the best performing(as in "I wanna go fast!") setup possible for terrible roads (Cincinnati/Northern KY). In other words, I don't want tires leaving the ground when hitting bumps at high speeds if possible; but I'd also like to reduce under-steer and overall roll as much as possible.

I enjoy the occasional AutoX and will likely be doing some track days @ Mid-Ohio with the car, but surprise mid-corner pot holes and speed-bumpesque highway seams will be seen much more often than apex curbing.

95' Del Sol VTEC
195/55/15
Currently have Koni Yellow/Intrax springs of unknown rate (feel overdamped on full soft)
My rear subframe is ripped to pieces from having too much fun with my ITR rear sway bar. I'll be repairing and installing an ASR brace. I have the ITR bar and also a 19mm Neuspeed bar to play with.

I'm thinking 10" 275f/225r with the ITR bar, thoughts?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Not with those soft rates.

Where do you drive that you catch air from hitting a bump in the road? How much of this thread did you read?

QKRTHNU

You think these are far too soft? I was figuring they were pretty close to stock ITR rates and those AutoX pretty well in stock form.

My Del Sol has been in my garage for a while undergoing a head rebuild and turbo setup, but I've been driving my MKIII GTI w/ a 28mm adjustable rear bar set to the stiffest point and these coilovers http://www.esetuning.com/FK-Automoti...t-p/fkvw55.htm corner weighted by a very good local alignment shop.

With that setup I can feel the rears get really light here: http://goo.gl/maps/Un1j in basically a straight line and here: http://goo.gl/maps/dnZ0 in a slight left turn at anything over 65mph, at 80+mph the rear is definitely off the ground briefly. Doesn't look like much because it's not, I think the springs are just too stiff. I have to set the dampers to 5/6 to feel like they're controlling the springs and it rides like a brick. Obviously this is a different car, but I want to avoid the same problem with new springs on the Honda.

I read through the entire thread. No one else looked to be planning on running as high of a ride height as me, so the higher rates they're running probably aren't necessary. I don't care if my car ends up looking like a 4x4, I just want it to have maximum grip on the streets which I spend 90% of my time driving. Something that would suit tarmac/gravel rally courses is probably what I'm looking for.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

And you drive a Del Sol.
It seems your goals are contrary to one another.
Almost everyone in this thread that said the same as you, not too harsh for a daily driver but stiff enough for occasional auto-x was told to get something in the neighborhood of 45-f/350r. Hence the reason why I wondered if you indeed read the thread.

QKRTHNU

Come on now, no need to bash the del sol, it's a decent little car. It's not like civics, integras or preludes are real sports cars either.

Ok, ignore the occasional AutoX from the goal equation if you think that's a conflict, although I disagree.

Harshness isn't even really the issue. I'm shooting for ideal rates for maximum grip on rough pavement (bumps, dips & holes). I'm of the opinion that high spring rates hurt performance on rough roads.

Are you saying that the frequent recommendation of 450/350 applies regardless of ride height?

I'm not sure if these numbers are accurate, but from the few threads I was able to find via search it looks like the Del Sol VTEC ran ~200f/150r stock. If I'm going to run close to stock height a 125%f/133%r increase seems like a large increase. ITR & CTR supposedly ran ~250/250, I never really thought of them as overly softly sprung cars but they definitely are compared to a 450/350 setup.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I said in the neighborhood of.
Unfortunately I, nor anyone else, know what your definition of a stiff/soft ride is. The minimum I would recommend for auto-x is 350/350. Riding high for auto-x seems counterproductive. A low center of gravity would seem to be what you want to achieve.
Daily driving is going to be up to you to do decide and you seem bent on getting soft-*** rates. Hence why I say your goals are contrary to one another.

QKRTHNU

LOL. I just think most people running high rates on the street do it so they can be "slammed yo", or because they associate a stiffer feel with increased performance whether or not it actually is correlated. If I need to run a higher rate than I'm thinking to get optimal street performance then I will, I'm not opposed to it, just skeptical.

Yes there's without doubt a benefit to lowering the CG, I'm just sick of hitting my oil pan on raised manhole covers in constuction zones.

Your garage link states that you're running "Progress CS-II (350F/250R)", that's only 27% stiffer in front and 11% stiffer in the rear than what I was considering. What's your opinion of that rate combo? Does it feel like a "soft-*** rate"? How much did you lower the ride height?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I don't hit my oil pan and I'm not jarring my spine. I don't lean in the corners and I've got a roughly 1-2 finger gap from tire to fender.

PGH95EG8

I received my Koni shocks today, but I'm still waiting on my GC's and PIC LCA's. I ordered the OTS rates, and I'll be replacing what I was told are T1R coilovers and stock DX LCA's. My current ride is similar to that of, oh I don't know, a pogo stick. Its tight in smooth turns, but shakes over 65. I will not be autocrossing/racing, so I feel the upgrade will be sufficient for spurts of spirited driving. However, reading some of this thread is making me second guess my decision. Should I have gone stiffer? Pittsburgh roads are seriously harsh!

98civdx

I would have gone stiffer.

hb_guy

well i need help and im jumping in.....

i have a 95 accord coupe, i have new kyb agx and i have some gc sleeves and i was ABOUT to order 4 ers springs from gc's website... i want a decently comfortable ride compared to my neuspeed race springs(which i love)... car is an ex but i have removed over 350 lbs of weight(yes i weighed it) and i installed a 4 point autopower race rollbar(~70 lbs).. i weigh 200....

so im very undecided on spring rates.. i am pretty set on getting 7" front springs and 8" rears... but i am undecided on rates.. my battery is in the trunk and the only thing in the bay is engine/tranny...


would 350/400 or 400/450 work ok? i like a somewhat stiff ride but i cant deal with tight non stop bouncing every time i hit a pebble.. i like to do some DE's and i go drag racing.. car is currentrly f22 turbo but im either k or j'ing the car over winter...

sorry for the long post but i have enjoyed all the advice and comraderie in here so im game for some advice.. thanks

willymccoy

I saw that someone said that a motor swaps difference in weight should not make a difference with the stiffness of the front spring.

I would have to agree 100%.

If the swapped in motor offers significantly more torque and less oilpan clearance I would make an exception. I have both more torque (K24a2) and less oilpan clearance so I opted for a stiffer front (450f) because I go into corners carrying more momentum, thus putting the nose down harder. More momentum translates directly to more weight especially when braking.

94 EG hatch 450f 400r. Rear sway bar.

Kozy.

No it doesn't. Your engine bears no relation to the deceleration capability of your car, unless of course you've fitted some form of reverse drive braking system...

teggi

96 Integra sedan 500lbs all around on koni yellows.
14 inch hx rims on 185/65 on full stiff.

willymccoy

Good to know. I read your second "**** I wrote about" treatise. Good article. :up:
Thank you.

Scotty Dosent Know

Springs on my 93 SI right now are 8"/380lbs in front and 7"/250lbs in rear. Car also has ITR front and rear sway bars on it.

Had these rates stock from Ground Control for years. I used to daily drive the car way back when so the rates were nice but now it is only a toy for curvy back roads/weekends. When I take the car out I drive it hard. The rears seem "okay" but I rub under hard cornering in the front especially if I hit a bump mid corner.

Was thinking about going 450lbs in the front. Will that be much of a change from 380? Should I go 500?

Also could I swap the 8"/380lb springs into the rear? Guessing I would have to lower the collar on the sleeves to compensate for the length?

This is how the car sits now, although I bought a set of 205/45 RE-11's that will be replacing the 205/40 RT615 (I hate the small sidewalls)

98civdx

450 isn't going to be that much different, especially in the front. You can definitely put the 380's in the rear. That would be a nice change.

450/350 is really popular.


How does the car behave now? Oversteer/understeer? Are you looking for oversteer?

Scotty Dosent Know

I like how the car handles now, with the ITR swaybars it exhibits over steer especially lift throttle over steer you have to be careful in a fast sweeper not to lift. In a tight tun/hairpin you can come in, lift slightly and the car will begin to rotate and then get back on the throttle.

I would not mind a little less on the street though since I have had a few butt puckering moments......like ripping an off ramp and the person in front of you slows down causing me to lift and go for the brakes. The rear end will step out in that situation lol

I have no camber adjustment at all though and the last few times the car has been aligned has just been your standard tire shop toe and go. I imagine the right alignment settings could do wonders also

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

450/380 would make the f/r bias 1.18:1 vs your current 380/250 setup that makes for a 1.52:1 f/r bias. In theory 450/380 would make for even more oversteer.

Scotty Dosent Know

I thought of this also. The more I think about it though the last time I drove the car I did take it to a shop and had an alignment done.....first one in a long time because I drove the car on a road trip to tail of the dragon (which was one of the last times I drove the car...about a year ago). I dont remember the car being overly tail happy on that trip and I drove the crap out of it. I wonder if the issues I was having could have been alignment related? Sway was also disconnected several times before the trip....maybe it was binding?

I think I may try 500f/380r if I can get away with the 8" spring in the rear.....that would be 1.31:1 I havent really noticed anyone running these rates though....

egsleepercivic

I run 8" 380f and 8" 380r and I am about the same ride height as you. the 8" 380 is fine for the rears. I run si's with 205/50/15's

My car is not a daily, I am thinking about going to 500/500 or so

Scotty Dosent Know

Thanks for that, I think I will try the 380's on the rear then. I just ordered a set of 475's for the front so we will see lol